Today's midday program features Bernadette Devlin speaking at the College of Saint Katherine and Saint Paul Devlin was elected to Britain's parliament in 1970 and served as a representative there for two years. She's currently on a speaking tour of this country to raise money for Peter and Noelle Marie were convicted by an Irish Court of killing a policeman and the two have been sentenced to death in Her speech develin examines. What she says is the distorted view of Irish politics in the American press review of the political situation there and what she sees as the solution this speech was recorded about a week ago. There is a brief technical problem about 20 minutes into the speech the tape speeds up for a short time then returns to normal. We apologize for the problem and hope it won't detract from your appreciation of Dublin's remarks.Thank you and good evening. Okay. I got confused sometimes as to which of these microphones actually protects one's voice. And which carries you to the nation. I have find on this is my I think fourth possibly first visit to the United States of America. But I have fun every visit. Most people in America because of lack of information are unaware of what is happening in Ireland or indeed because of the very scant and stop information. They get through their televisions and newspapers that they have a very clear understanding of what's happening in Ireland. And this time is especially for you find a strong Irish American Community to be confused with Eric Allen political interpretation of what's happening in Ireland. That is BS on a general political analysis current at the time that their ancestors left. Do you find that many people? Any Irish American Community? What's the best of intentions for men conference? They know better what's happening in Ireland and the people who come from Earth in 1976. I got to understand about it. So understandable in a sense where there is no continuous flow of factual information to which people can relate that there appears to be no rational basis, which the problem is rooted. I don't think that is entirely accidental on the part of the mass media and establishment, press and television. because of course the human mind works in such a way that once it begins to exercise itself and understands things on a rational basis. There's no turning it back. If you understand the problem and Ireland on a rational political basis, you begin to question some of the apparent Insanity of the society in which United live and you attempt to make some rational logical of American society and Ireland of the struggle of any oppressed people anywhere in the world because America is such a Melting Pot of people who have fled oppression and every corner of the world. The representation of our struggle is not on country version romantic relationship if it is understood in this country to the development of the new America. And because I am not only a person who believes in the right to self-determination for the Irish people for the person who originally from a very emotional reaction to being born on the bottom of society through my own development and struggle and asking of questions and reading of lots of material to find answers developed personal philosophy. A revolutionary socialism and of course the media in this country or anybody else's Caesar has no function of theirs to propagate passion. Anyway, reasonable or rational the philosophy of socialist. To maybe that at the end of this meeting you may wish I hadn't come here, but I hope that is not your position. If at the end of this making you disagree with me, that's one thing but if you fail that you wish you hadn't heard something which forced your mind to flex its muscles, then you should think again, but whether it's better to live with a closed mind or one that an opening presents you with personal problems. The position that I have done today is not that it has represented some meaningless irrational struggle between two religious communities. It is not a struggle which is conducted on the basis either. What's the doctrine of the Catholic church in regard to the paper side or in the doctrine of the Presbyterian Church in regard to the 39 articles to the Presbyterian V to struggle? Because they see ology of the True Religions are at no point in the struggle Nation. What is at issue is the relative positions held in society by those people like a flick in working-class and those people in the north were Protestant working class. And the position is one that since the Inception of the Northern Ireland state over 50 years ago the Protestant work and class of Hell the position of marginal privilege over there Catholic counterparts. That position has not been accidentally one. It is one which has been politically and economically created need infant to measure of Justice equality and opportunity only among the working class so that it is always and never the fighting and fighting amongst itself over the crumbs that is allowed by those people who rules and controllers were Many people in America did I find a bit of preponderance of people in America who are confused as to what the working class is my first visit to this country. I was astounded by the fact that so many people this CLIA membership of that great and Noble by the working class. I'm indeed. I thought people in America must be very well. Say if all these people do not belong to the working class has anybody in this position in society? Let me put it to you this way. With what will you find money to buy food? With what when you bought science money. Put a roof over your heads perhaps in this college. The question is not posed itself to you. Very startling. Whether you have to work with your hands and do they have a liver or whether you are fortunate enough to be in college and receive a good education and work with Clean Hands work with your friends. If you don't work some way you have no means of surviving you have no means of feeding closing yourself and keeping a roof over your head if in some way you do not find work and exchange whatever talent you have for the means with which to love. If you don't belong in that category, you're not in the working class. So what's up with you? You've taken already a great dying word step. Middle class upper middle class lower middle class New Orleans and middle classes in between are working class people with confused ideas about themselves and pretensions above their station. There are only two classes in the world those who work for the 11 and those who live off everybody else's work. It is the same in your country as it is in mine and in every country throughout the entire world. When you have a situation in Ireland where historically are people have been dominated because of the political and economic interests of the 40th hundred years by Enya and you have growing up in that dominated country a great class of wa oppressed people because of their nationality or oppressed because of her Brooklyn with an assignation. I'm in the north of Ireland the stamp what you need many people in this country are not aware of a state which was on Democratic play find it boring night of violence violence violence. In 1918 many people are unaware of the fact that in 1918 the population of Ireland through the Democratic channel of The Ballot Box peaceful a undemocratically of the British Empire and they did it by 87% of the popular vote in Ireland an organization which bolts an election on a simple program it if they received the majority of the Irish vote. They would remove themselves from the Empire set up an independent government on declaring independent nation 87% of the population voted for that program. Therefore by any intention purpose, Ireland voltage itself out of the British Empire. Lastly greater majority than for example of Jamaica Water is not a president of America. What what was the reaction of the British government to our Democratic right Express through the Democratic channel in The Ballot Box. They tell us the way we should do it. And if we only did it that way they would have no argument with us. But as far back as 1918, that's exactly the way we did it and their response to that was to immediately declare war on what they call the rebel and a very bloody and violent War ensued which continued on the partition of Ireland in the early 1920s believe it was 1922. A listings of Northern Ireland did not even comprised at 13% who voted to remain British, but because at 13% wealthiest into Northeastern countries around the industrial center of Belfast. They could not provide the basis for a viable Economist and I'm so for countries who have the population of those four countries constitute at one-third of the population of the new state the cause of the Reformation. The people who aspired to Independence what Catholic on the people who wanted to remain in British were Protestant and that's what the religious element comes into the conflict to write from the Arts set. The speed of Northern Ireland was created under threat of Greater war against the Democratic wish of the paper and comprised within that state from it's very creation 33% of the population whose dispute was not the manner in which the state was wrong or whose dispute was a very existence of the state of self. And two in order to set up on Monday on for 50 years the apparatus of Steel and the stability of government. It was necessary to systematically oppressed the Catholic minority that one third of the population in Northern, Ireland. It was a position which did not stem some play from religious bigotry. Although they are religious bigotry was used and very deliberately used by those who want to touch the sacraments in order to put pop fear and Prejudice of one Community against another the slogan at that time was home rule for Ireland is Rome rule for Ireland and many Protestant people thought they had good reason to fear any sore throat When people talk about the violence of Northern Ireland, they tend to see it in terms of something that started about 1970 there never has been since the Inception of Northern of the Northern Ireland steal a time. When not 33% give any measure of consent to the state to govern the Never Was A Time In which that still did not exist under the threat of violence on Rosemont and in the physical threat of violence against the minority it when people talk about violence breaking out what they really mean it when the oppressed began to fight back and it's a significant how many people in the society refused to see violence except when it is a violence of the oppressed they can live comfortably And their own litter boxes on tolerate the violence of poverty the violence of starvation the violence of ignorance in the violence of Oppression and never shed a single tear on never worrying that individual consciousness. About the loss of human life for the sanctity of human life or the terribleness of violence. But as soon as an oppressed people being deprived of every other mechanism of expressing their determination to rise above oppression resort to the use of violence all hell breaks loose every newspaper every liberal in the country begins to weep about the onset of violence violence is indigenous with a nose because of its indigenous within the system in which we live. when people talk about peace and Northern Ireland, they must remember attention is nobody in our in Northern Ireland 800 years old. There are none of us and Ireland to remember what peace and any real sense was because we imagine that peace may have been something this piece of people talk about peace may have been something that existed before we wear an oppressed people. What are the circle me nothing and has never existed since the time of our oppression? When people talk about high-flow and ideas, like peace, we like to hear talked about them concrete language and what they mean by it does peace mean that a man or a woman can have a right to a decent job, but decent roof over their heads and a right to equality of human dignity with every other person in their society. That's what these names and we are all in favor of peace. But it seems like those you control our society don't want to give us a kind of peace peace to them as our passive acceptance of our place in society on questioning and passive except that some people have got to be on the bottom. And particularly if you are the unfortunate section of the community Catholic working class in Northern Ireland, black, Chicano Mexicano in America, Indiana and America or Palestinian in the Middle East. When you're the people who are on the bottom that kind of piece makes no sense because that's kind of peace to us is a word that is best explained by the word torture what's going on in Ireland is a struggle by as an oppressed people to end the problems because they say that they today problems of poverty Bad Heisenberg wages bad living conditions, no work. Because they say he's always day-to-day conditions and they are right directly related to the fact that that country is ruled by Britain for the political and economic purpose of a large sections of the British population that has to save those people who own and control the major British Industries to make large profits of our Misery by then our fight for justice necessitates. Our fight against British domination of our country. Amazon that struggle there are many people who feel quite simplistic like that if you simply remove the British you and the problem nothing is as simple as that. Because we see in the south of Ireland a country that has removed political control over that contract with its own Army until national anthem and its own offer out of state but it appears to Austin. Country is not free either because every part of note they have is guaranteed on the bank of England because every major industry they have is owned and controlled directly by Britain and controlled directly by Britain in the north or south of Ireland is owned and controlled directly by America until we feel that there is no way that we are in any sense in control of our own lives around decisions and our own futures. Do not only is it a question of removing the political and Military oppression of the British and Ireland. What is the question of the timeline to who does the wealth of the words below in the west of the word today as Vesta in an infinitely small number of people? There are none of those people they hide behind such names as General Motors on British and cologne and I see Ian the multinational companies. Who put factories and everybody's compliment lots of money of everybody's back. Those are the people who live off of other people's work. And we get every country why we live where the working-class you keep them going. I don't want the problems of religious sectarianism of racial hatred of poverty starvation of greed of ignorance. Cannot be solved so long as the situation continues, but those people are allowed to maintain ownership and control of the entire Western power of the world since it has been demonstrable has shown that the way they use it is to divide us against each other on the basis of color of creed or a class and sections with an R. So that they can go on getting richer and richer Wireless World goes on being more rapidly and more rapidly destroyed and people in it go on dying of hunger or else Wartortle green for a fear of ignorance and it appears to be not a matter of some elephant infiltrating alien philosophy. What a matter of sound common sense. But we The working-class Who suffer from those problems require the last of the power that those people have in order to solve those problems many people ask if the working class was in power and Ireland would they not oppress as badly as everybody else? Who would win you press who is there beneath us that we could oppress? There is no one there is no section of the world's population that Lies Beneath the working class and will be oppressed ourselves on could we open any worse than the system under which we have load for 800 years has oppressed us a system which denied us our right to our culture all right to our language or write to a religion or right to our freedom. System which has continually divided us one against the other assistant which produced in our complex probably the greatest form one of the Western World. Could we oppress ourselves any more than that? No matter Hi Barbie, might be no matter how clumsy we might be in a class controlling our own destiny. There is by no stretch of the imagination Anyway by which we could be more cruel as you are. Not system, which has girlfriend does 4800 years and that applies not only in Ireland, but in every country of the word, we could not make a worse job of controlling our own future and has been made offered by a system called capitalism that has brought us into two world wars and flattens for its own Survival to bring us something yet. Another complaint to the question of Ireland is not totally unrelated to your lives. But as you may be beginning to feel uncomfortably close. The problem and I are really it's very much to the problem of racism in America to the problem of Zionism in the Middle East. It is always an FYI the way by which the class is divided against itself. Do people have said to me why then can't you have peace and I Island unite the working-class Catholic and Protestant the move forward. It can't be Donuts some play artist statically as odd because of Facts of Life are but in Northern Ireland the sectional for Community most oppressed are the Catholic working-class the section of the community for very historic and political reasons most used against them in Montana oppression and working class except in terms of understanding the class relationships and society and intermediate times in the Marlin at least the right of the people of Ireland to decide the issue for themselves. I'm definitely immediate withdrawal from the entire scene of conflict of the British Army and British political intervention. In this country, you had a very similar situation where you had vast number of American troops in Vietnam. And when did the anti-war movement in this country began to grow the American government's main reason for being in Vietnam was that if they withdrew they were there for humanitarian reasons through that would be a massive blood by which would reverberate write the Western World and destroy the society in which we all lived. When the pressure of the anti-war movement in this country forced the American government to decide between the bloodbath and it's only Survivor on the doctors for its own Survival. Did you think the people who run I know some of you probably late but you think the people who run your country as you are absolutely stupid, but they could make such a fundamental mistake or was it that they were telling you lies about what would happen in order to justify their presents are in order that the imperialist relationship between America and Vietnam could continue on people who own and control organizations like General Motors to go on the situation is 2 cm and Island the British government assistance argument for Montana has troops in Ireland is that that would be a bloodbath if they polite but these ignorant peasants names of Irish wolf Slaughter each other in the name of some medieval church at the British are not there to present them. They have known they speak known and they require. No because unless there is within this country within itself and what island of the month that has a width of the part of working people behind it to Dammam the withdrawal of those troops. They have no intention of put on the night or just like the American troops in Vietnam that purpose for being there is not to keep the peace what you meant in the system which allows a few to make profit of the box of the man. I see stuff they are seriously interested in peace if she was there with his troops. What is a simple question of the withdrawal of military power and over cuz I would describe, who support the traditional probation? But the politics are very much the issue on the manner in which the British are forced to withdraw from our country is very much the issue people do not believe my argument that it is not simply a question of flags and drums at National Anthem. But a question in real terms of where the western part of the world is centered on the rights not only to the freedom of the nation. What is the emancipation of the class then there is one significant section of the Irish Community in Ireland on him not point is most definitely not lost. And that is the government of the Irish Republic and all that stand that has developed over the. Of 50 years or supposed Independence. Was in knots be at the development internally of a ruling class and a capitalist class all be a junior partner is not lost on them because as of now before the struggle even reaches any such lever, they are hell-bent on a system of Oppression that would prevent the rise of anybody against Injustice and the size of ions. They know is a point is lost on the provisional Ira if it is lost on that is very little very few places in the world to what you can find where young people have not gone more bravely and more courageous like into a struggle against oppression. What is that has to count for something and bring it by the society in which we can love then the whole question of social upheaval the bringing them to be in Freedom physical. Because the situation in the size of Ireland at this present moment is such and in disgraceful and disgusting correlation with those who supposedly carry on the memory of James Connolly the Irish Labour party people in Ireland and two young people and I don't know I stand convicted and ready to behind the point is not lost on them. But the ruling class in the size of Ireland will not survive. In times of that power and strength will not survive the struggle for Freedom. They have enacted a state of emergency and I may have introduced a low known as a criminal jurisdiction. I switch covers everything from Presque censorship to executions because they are in advance of the day that they were preparing to do battle with the Irish working class itself. They have a position where, Cruise O'Brien who I believe Tripp's Dry in America at one time masquerading as a liberal or radical awesome via description. Government went himself personally on television last we ignorant people could not read the legislation and explain to us what it meant. Is any person wrote a letter to a newspaper to? Are please Crimson or lend Credence to philosophy I know don't need with a person like and look like leather be liable to such a term of imprisonment was so would be the editor of the newspaper for the county the last if you can find press censorship a greater level than not in any country in the world. Don't tell Conor Cruise O'Brien because you don't care for them to Ireland. I don't know that I'm because of that person to show they have managed to take Mariano one more lie to a stage for their lives in the balance. The facts of them are atheist or not only in humanitarian terms of to the individuals. How to fire in a supposedly Democratic come from what the political implications of them gift cards not only to myself but everyone else involved in struggle radical or national to feel an extra Hangman's rope on the whole question of the evidence and personal determination of Justice Springer to see these two people behind listen to question the whole basis of government and the size of Ireland. What time is a rational explanation as to why it should be so too young anarchists with no Organization? No. Program of action no involvement and struggle for him the weakest link in any political chain that the easiest people time. I want you have established your right to hang them. Then you can move on Anaheim more people and then you can extend the number for offenses for which a person can behind until we start moving rapidly backwards and Iris Society do a time when you could be executed for simple membership of an organization, which the government theme to be against at SunTrust. Other people that this may thing they feel that they don't agree with what I'm saying in terms of my political philosophy. They may feel threatened by it. But they are under any Hungry Horse Ranch because it's the determination of the ruling class to move the clock backwards in this country on than mine to reintroduce the right of judicial murder to take away the life of a person by the termination of the state is being reinforced through like the worst by the ruling class the right to hang the right to execute the right to firing squad and there is a responsibility. If not, In political terms that you may agree with my definition of the problem, but at least in human terms, if you are not prepared to see your Society on Mine Road will rapidly backwards to barbarism that you take a position in your own country and in mind against the death penalty and you may not feel obliged to do very much about in the immediate Sam's until I don't want to let you off the nail your Forever may disappear by morning. Let me have a petition here which quite simply we ask you to sign and which does not compromise whatever political positions you may hold unless you're in favor of the death penalty under the name of Mary in the one where they be stopped. It brings into question the basis on which they were tried and oranges at the death penalty be rescinded. It's as simple as that and I would never in your life ever again feel obliged to play an active role in changing the shape of your society when you're about 70 years old. You can at least remember if you did nothing else for the progress of mankind somewhere sometime you sign the petition to see if somebody's life is not a big thing to ask you and I would seriously ask you not to get to leave him a time. What type sign in it? Unless you can convince yourself in your own heart that you have very good reason for not doing that. It may and Foxy of the life of Marlon normally and then sealing their life someday at Macy of mine and a lot of other people's you may not think my life was seeing her but someday it may also see if your own because once the ruling class move on the offensive. They always go for extremists like me first but sooner or later it whines up to the turn of the uninvolved and you find yourself on the wrong side of the law. So basically of people came to this meeting Frank, I know that song. Irish Firebrand was going to jump up and dying and frightened the audience and talk about bombing and killing and shooting and murdering everybody. She could get her hands on you have been disappointed. What did I ask you to judge something you sing me hear some of your sales for the very first time in your lives. Until you can only judge me on what you see here. I think myself but I'm a reasonably intelligent rational person with a serious argument. You may not agree with it. But a serious argument an irrational position on a problem that exists in my country, which I can see not only in terms of violent, but sometimes of an international problem that it's the people who told you I was something else. Lie to you about me. What makes you think that they lie about me? Why do they attempt to represent me or some kind of wandering lunatic Munster and if they lie about me, what do they tell the truth abide in your Society or mine? Thank you. I think you probably know more about the normal Ramen with a question-and-answer session than I do. So if you were to fall into your natural Potter, and I'll follow it with the Catholic church, since it is said that the church has a history of being against Irish rebels of the present time is to pick and choose its side and there are many people in / scratch their heads and wondering because because the people are leaving the church has the fact that many people are inside leaving their churches is no Unrelated to the church's attitude to poverty and suffering. I'm in Ireland. We find that not only the Catholic church, but all the churches we know that there are 10 come on. Once I think there's not a church and the words that doesn't disagree more than why there are there are not Ten Commandments but the church seems to pick and choose which come on when should be a bad and by whom they should be all bad. And so they say to the oppressed that you must obey the lawful government according to the fourth Commandment. Until they say to the oppressed that you must obey the fifth commandment to not kill. But they never seem to remind with the same consistency the oppressor of the CM commandment. Do we find an island? It is someone who happens to hold a respectable position in society. Somebody happens to be a judge or anybody above that social lever and happens to lose his life on the conflict. You can be guaranteed within 24 hours of a joint statement from the butcher shops on the sanctity of human life. What person after person on the provisional Republican movement and the official Republican movement in the UDA on the uvf whatever reason they are drawn into conflict loses their life and there has yet to be a bishop Catholic Protestant Presbyterian or Methodist should one statement on the side of the day of their lives and it appears to us and then many extend the inequality of human life lies. Not only within our society, but I know what you claim to represent God on this Earth God seems to differentiate between the value of human life as well. Unrefined and I have an amazing kid Seneca, but I have a sneaking suspicion that if I open my PS4 some morning and see a statement from the established churches in support of my argument. I know I'm going to win because God is he has represented in the society by the established churches never backs a loser. Another questioner asked Evelyn what her blueprint of government would be if she could affect a worker's Revolution my rights to have a blueprint of government if in the course of a worker's Revolution, I appear with my Blueprints and say that's the way it's going to be then I have an oppressor. The people who will decide the Machinery of government on the way, the society will be wrong will be the people themselves when they are in a position to do so and that is the other side of the Revolution never one can only determine what kind of society that will not be. I'm not a blueprint for the mechanism in a wife who run the administration people have no confidence in themselves. They think we are not capable of anything. We people who produce the entire wealth of the world actually believe the propaganda that we're not capable of running a conference. We're not capable of doing anything. They're not capable of organizing we are And is willing Falls and it will develop and it will represent the people and their own interests where you have a blueprint that you are going to enforce on people After the Revolution, then you simply end up with oppression and animals and capitalism and we have got some some countries in the world affect the revolution she speaks on the Protestant working classes are against it if I believe that the Republican method which took Sido was a correct way of advancing the best interest of the working class. I be a member of the Republican movement, and I'm not November 4th Republican movement that I see severe limitations both in the basis on which it is organized and the Viewpoint from which it sees the struggle against the movement criticisms offered on its limitations reason. I'm a member of the Irish for socialist program is because I believe that the only way forward the only way to find the solution on our class pieces is to develop a socialist program in Ireland that relates only issues on the CM political principle the issue of Catholic oppression the issue of unemployment the issue of Todd Housen the issue of the oppression of women. I'm clearly people in the one organization to come back the struggles of the working class wherever they find them and that is not to say because you don't listen to start a quarrel, you can't stop the world and put the divided sections of the working class. Will you think they ought to be we have got to live in the real world and face the realities of prejudice of fear and greed we have to challenge them on a day-to-day basis on a BSN Square by an individual person come see that that's Groupon organizer some fights most consistently and with the most principal on the issues that most affect them like the fact that they But the fact that they don't have a decent home and yet supposed to see him principal was challenged with another individual the reactionary positions. He holds and try to argue with him or her YMCA his position on rias or his position on religion is against his own interest. I'm not mix Revolution you say it takes it out of the front page of the newspapers as a very exciting thing to be on it makes it the hardest of them anywheres from the outside to people who have a romantic idea of the world that makes it the hardest the most laborious the most boring in the most difficult way on the slowest way of making any progress but it is the only way I'm working class by hiding from the issues which divided them you can't do night them by pretending that religious sectarianism of the inequality and discrimination do not exist in this country. You cannot unite white and black working-class by pretending that racism is something that doesn't exist. Why not listen raising the question of racism by nose piercing up to the fact that racism is something that we who are white tick almost unconsciously because we have been read into it for so long. I know less we make a conscious effort. The challenge it within ourselves with other people and we can both nothing and that's the only way it can be done by building on a clear political philosophy and the only philosophy which I see how much does not have the contradiction that allowed for the development of the refueling of the fires of racism religious divisions in Greece. It's a philosophy of Marxism. That is why I believe and I don't know Jesus. I don't see it as some form of religion or cream to me. It seemed seems rational and see him. That's the only way that I see forwarding it may take a long time. It may take me all my lifetime and it may take somebody's life time after that. But in the absence of that struggle, nothing good is going to come out of the human race. That one was asked to compare the Irish clergy to the Latin American clergy are radical clergy parking for side of the church. But most of them have been sent to the missions erotica. Love start of accurate is ships Mi to the missions on the plan has rebounded because we have produced in one small area of the world a large concentration of radical people who happen to be in the church. And in fact to the best of my knowledge the church is trying to send them to the mission and Ireland to diffuse the situation. Dublin men was asked her opinions on the women's peace movement of people would come through the anti-war movement themselves and felt the strength of their demand for peace and removing the troops from Vietnam felt a kindred spirit to people who came across the Atlantic and call themselves woman for. Peace. I would not by any stretch of the imagination say that those women were not sincere and honest and their desire for peace, but there is a fundamental difference. In the women's movement for peace in Ireland on the American anti-war movement. The anti-war movement was a movement based in the country of the oppressor the bonding piece by demanding. First of the oppressor that he be the first person to make a contribution to Peace by withdrawing his military force. The woman's peace movement. And Ireland is Adam movement for peace from within the oppressed Community which makes its demands direct its demands to the oppressed community and I asked that the first contribution to peace be mad by their own people the oppressed Community laying down their arms. That's not a question or simply taking your side and saying because I am one of the oppressed. I don't agree that it should be done that way. It is impossible to be done that way because it is impossible to receive any response to that tomorrow because if you remove the oppressor from the situation, you don't immediately song for it, but at least you decrease the immediate fear of the oppressed, whereas if you in fact your first step is to remove the oppressed in the violent confrontation you rapidly increase Sofia and it is a realistic fear that the oppressor and all his mic was finally conquered him. So when realtime's to the oppressed and Island the demand for peace from the piece women's movement is seen as a demand for surrender and they say it's not they say we're not asking for peace, but that is the logic of the situation which of those lost on the Leadership is not lost in the population. They have a movement people support the marches for peace because they want peace all over their support is rapidly declining because they become as is only natural in that situation more confused memorialized by the existence of the peace movement on a conflict and bring them into and their own Society on the more it becomes apparent that farted require and their demand for peace is the acceptance of Oppression. But the peace woman refused even to learn on the practicalities of life, even if washing the Progressive Movement emblems of connection with Leo people's lives in might learn by their mistakes and Amanda withdrawal of troops what the peace leadership that we have Catholic and Protestant women in this movement and we are not going to say anything about the actual situation of the practicalities of day-to-day life in Northern Ireland. Because if we say one thing to press the Protestant women in our organization and if we say another The Catholic women in our organization. So the unity it within the peace movement except we want peace and that's what they said that many things. We want peace. They have collected large sums of money loaned it to whoever they want to give us a what they had collected in Europe 200,000 poems for their peace camp in August that they were going to spend the money building a nice room how to swim in pool on the peace sign. The Notions of middle-class people have as to the needs of Working Class. People are endless. What's the Working Class People in the ghettos of Belfast need are decent houses decent jobs. They don't need a swimming pool on the peace lane or an ice rink. It would be a very nice thing to have but what's the point of floating arrange some glorious pale blue swimming hole below me to have to go home and dry yourself off and a hover like you haven't got room to move on if they are not going to release themselves. We have to callatis of Life. They are neither Progressive nor can they bring the bike face? Again on the subject of women that one was asked to comment on the women's movement in Ireland women are not organized separately in women's organizations. What are organized and political organizations raising the woman's question and fighting for equality of emphasis on the woman's question inside those organization. The oppression of women as woman in Ireland is in many ways much greater than the oppression of women and other societies it is still early and I are a society that a man has a right to beat his wife like he beats his dog instead of Wylie had stair and Northern Ireland, but the sword function of woman is to get married have children. Keep them all shot. On this very hard to control that kind of situation unless you are prepared. In fact to do so on a class pieces because the one thing that women appear to understand much more clearly and irises is a relationship between a woman's question on the class question and we are under no illusions that come the great class-divided. They'll be a naughty sister on the other side of the line for some biographical background specific details on her career in Britain's parliament in this country. You use words somewhat differently than we do but you are determined as a correlation. The century was a correlation of all the Catholic organizations around a sort of convention. Who would be agreeable to all sections of the Coalition and I was selected candidate. Add on the United Coalition vote. We defeated the United loyalists wrote. What are the essential elements on a political basis? What you had the Nationalist against the union Astro the Catholics against the Protestants, but I was elected on a coalition vote in 1970. That was a by-election. I was re-elected of the general election elyssium vote for the position of that stage was rapidly altering many sections of the Coalition voted for me in that election because they hadn't had time to organize Against Me by the time the next general election Cameron. The social Democrats had formed their own party and put a candidate in the field against me. So we had my self representing the international the end of a socialist, which I'd always I stood as an independent socialist representing what was left of the Coalition on the Social Democratic and Liberal Party who feel that their own candidate moisturizing coupon and in the best method of sorts, 50/50 on the unionists Coalition which remained unbroken got exactly the same number of votes as I got in the last election the represent any change of opinion in regard either to the unionists myself or mr. Ivan Cooper, but a much deeper political Trend and hardening of the political Lines within the Anti-Imperialist. Westerner noted that the English labor government is on the side of the working class. So wide Evelyn was asked hasn't the labor government in England remove the oppressors of their own labor Kindred in Ireland government in Britain and its political philosophy is not. That's the part of the working class. But if the part of the aristocracy of Labor under the capitalist system better than those with example. An audience member suggested to Dublin that the US state department is selective about who is allowed to speak in this country and commented that the practice should be stopped that one responded great support any demand you might have on people who disagree on me. Why is it that people are so frightened of information from radicals if everybody is so sure that we are the minority who have nothing reasonable to say why is it that every government in the country wants to make sure that nobody hears what question it's getting harder by the way for me to get him. That was Bernadette Devlin and remarks recorded about a week ago at the College of Saint Catherine's in st. Paul or speech was recorded by Pat Kessler. Is that copies of her remarks are available? And if you're interested you may call us at 2 9 1 1 2 2 2 in the Twin Cities listening area to request cassette copy listeners. In other areas of Minnesota may call us toll-free at 1 800-652-9700. But before you begin placing your calls, we'd like to ask you to refrain from calling until after 2 this afternoon. All of the phone lines at Minnesota Public Radio are currently tied up. And so if you're interested in the cassette copies of the Dublin speech, please hold off calling until after 2 this afternoon. That concludes our public affairs program for today. These are the Stations of Minnesota Public Radio.