The beginning of the Irish Republican movement is generally set in the year of 1798. Before that of course, Ireland was occupied by by British troops and there were movements of one kind or another to oppose this occupation and 2/3 the country to separate the country from British domination, but it is generally believed that the first expression of the intention to unite the country are to free the country under a republican form of government. I was first expressed in in 1798 and in that year and those years Catholics were being particularly oppressed particularly discriminated against in that they couldn't vote hold public office. I receive education our own property and so of necessity The movement Steve 3D infant Republican movement to feel like was founded by Protestants. They were the only people who could organize and the only people who were sufficiently educated at being able to Institute a serious political movement, and they Found it in an organization called the United Irishmen with the avowed intention specifically written down so that they can be no Distortion know of their aims and objectives. However much that might be a desirable thing for some groups to do they wrote down their objective as to unite under the common name of Irishman Catholic Protestant and the center And that was the initial aim of the Republican movement and it has continued to be the aim of the Republican movement. Although Splinter groups of one kind or another have tried to distorted and have carried out activities which are in direct contradiction to that stated and written a man objective. From the year 1798 to 1916. There were sporadic attempts to pursue the Republican ideal. They were sometimes purely political. Sometimes they were purely Ministry and sometimes they took on both aspects. They were never very successful. There were some back all the time. The war was never one. The year 1916 so I'll probably the most important engagement between the the Irish people and the British forces a and then. You're in at Easter. There was the Easter rising of 1916 and it is important because it eventually achieved National sovereignty for the greater power for the country that is British troops were withdrawn from the greater part of Ireland in 1922, except for some occupation of the port area state that the coastline they were withdrawn 19381 devalera wishing to remain neutral during the war at a negotiated a total removal of all the British troops from the ports and the docks and a 1949 a 89 Irish government declared a sovereign Republic in the 26 counties. And so the national struggle is it is called as as opposed to any other kind of struggle was one in that part of the country and British troops have not been there since since 90. 38 the struggle from that point on Took on a totally different form. It was no longer a and all-ireland struggle for one thing. The national struggle had being as I have said a chief in the greater part of the country. The country has been partitioned by the British in 1920 who then they had arbitrarily drawn a a border. Between the northern six counties in northeastern part of the country and the rest of the country. This is not as it's sometimes mistakenly refer to his Ulster. This is not the province of Ulster the province of Ulster contains nine counties and still does contain nine counties. But if the British had drawn the line across the the the problems of Ulster and divided that from the other three problems assembly majority and that he would have been Catholic a nationalist and the whole operation would have been futile. What they did was they do a thing like that around the six counties of Ulster in which there was a Protestant loyalist majority and that was the beginnings of the present-day conflict. Another life said the conflict the present a conflict Bears little or no relation, except in some aspects to the of the conflict which I have been describing before 1916 or before nineteen twenty-two for one thing. It was a national conflict type still but it had a complication on the complication was it in the area under dispute a majority of the people did not want separation from England did not want to be reunited with an Irish Republic the reasons I think we're many and varied in and of course they are probably very from almost from person to person but generally speaking. I think it would be true to say that they refused to to enter into a a geographical Unity which would have resulted in their Domination by a Catholic government. They they express this by saying that home rule was Rome rule in general and in particular. This was a a justify Objection, they would almost certainly have been if I hadn't had been simply geographically United. There's no question, but that they would like the rest of us in the 26 counties of come under the control of a ATC oppressive government. And that would be a Roman Catholic Theocratic government out of their religion their condition. Their their freedom of conscience would be severely restricted. They would be forced to accept the moral teaching of the Catholic church because the teaching of the Catholic church is part of the law of the land in the 26 counties. And so that that particular objection is well-founded and only two to true as far as the rest of us in the 26 counties are concerned. Other objections I suppose it would be less hard to pin down and certainly less hard to to prove in any way they they they would maintain I think some of some of that that's under breast and they would have a better standard of living a better way of life and I suppose as I've said under under purely National Geographic a Unity that too could be proven to be true Zenith are there could be Arguments for and against it's not too strong a case as the case on religious grounds been any case whatever their objections their history and their tradition and their religion. I put them into the position of bitterly opposing any attempt to reunify the country under an Irish Republic and I have maintained that they wish to remain part of the British Commonwealth. The Republican movement, which I referred earlier in this Foundation continued on in different forms right down to the present day in 1916. In 1905 was following the shoe Fein organization at that time machine thing organization of an object. It was the establishment of a constitutional monarchy. So it was not in fact a republic and moving at its concept at its Inception the British. In fact pushing fan into a republican position by erroneously describing the 1916 Rising as a shin Fane Rebellion, nothing of the kind and only very few members of Sinn Fein had been sympathetic to our taking part in this room fan Rising. It had been a rising of members of the Irish volunteers members of the Irish citizen Army who would come together to the to declare the rising in 1916, but because the British attach this label to it it became popular really used and it became eventually popularly Tru tinh Phan changed its nature the nature of the power to change the same aims and objectives from that of a of a constitutional monarchy to being a republican movement, but initially, it was nice. After 1922 and after the disastrous and bitter Civil War resulted in which resulted in the signing of the Treaty of 1921 the second movement continued away from us in 1927 and found his own party and it was of course by the considerably weakened and if it came for the first time since since 1969, I minority party but it continued on it it it it was still a republican organization and nationalist organization dedicated to the reunification on the freedom of Ireland and for 40 years after that it engaged in a sort of a permanent cycle of activity on the cycle of activity was but it engaged in armed activity against the British Army in the north. It was almost always defeated and came out of the Armed activity particularly weekend. If it would end rebuild itself slowly over a. Of years and then engage again in a more military activity on the cycle wood would go on and it seemed like it was going to be never-ending road with no way of getting off the Merry-Go-Round from the point of view of Republicans who ever thought about it the traditional policy the traditionalist Outlook was that there was no need to get off at what every generation did was assert its right to National Independence and Freedom by Force of Arms as they had done in 1916 and that if defeated you are you as as the as the phrase goes Maryland your hand of the torch down to the Next Generation there was never any inquiry or investigation or study as to whether this was in fact in a in any given day and age the correct procedure the proper tactics to pursue give him the aim and objective is a movement. It was the traditional at way in which Republican policies were pursued and there was no It was no dissenting voice much until about 1962 and 1963 the last between 1956 and 1962. It was particularly disastrous at 8 receive no support at all or very little support and it splattered to a halt a long time before it was actually called off a long time before there was actually a ceasefire declared and the political prisoners around the stage and released. But the difference is there was a difference at this point at this point the leadership of the movement at that time called for a total investigation as to where the movement was going why it was it was not receiving the support for the mass of the People by the people had a great sympathy with it and a good deal of admiration for the members of the Republican movement for the courage. They displayed and it mean when one way or another they never gave it their their on critical support the kind of support needed for it to achieve the same as an objective and this investigation and this inquiry took about two years and was very little obvious activity by the Republic moving in those two years. It was all totally internal investigations activity and in 1965 by a majority vote at the National Convention Dublin Republican movement adopted a resolution stating its aim and objective to be in the future and for all the time the achievement of a socialist secular Republic Now this was a total departure from the traditional Republican Outlook even injector view point, which I have been describing to you and from it came all kinds of a diversion from the traditional cycle. It was inevitable at this point that the cycle is broken. And that they would not be the the the interminable conflicts building UPS armed conflicts that they had been before. This was a totally new departure. There had been Progressive groups particular times throughout the history of the movement. I think the most notable probably was the Republican Congress 19 start a 32 when a group has tried to force a similar resolution on the convention of Sinn Fein and failed instead of I suppose we would see now remaining within the movement in trying to move the majority at the next convention. They withdrew from the Republican Congress dedicated and non Progressive group of people which but it it was dissipated in about 2 years. It had disappeared. There were groups within the Republican movement in the forties were interned who actually doing their internment became communist and they began to try and have education classes within the Carta internment camp where they were all being held for the period of the war and so frightened that they members that they leadership of the Republican movement become at their success that they off the cam Cummins commandant's to release these people if they didn't want at the end of the war a large mass of coming is coming out to the internment camp. And they were released immediately. Which also converted a lot of papers coming into my foot it starts, but in any case they form the nucleus of the new Irish Workers Party and finally today they come in as part of Ireland. So there was always an element of the left if you like, but they were never stalling and they never could achieve a majority within the organization until the year 1965 when a democratic majority was obtained David Lee who refused to accept this the traditional nationalist Menards dedicated to if not specifically stating a dedicated to the achievement whose whole outlook was in this Direction They opposed the move left from Mason section right through to the convention, which was there their Democratic right? But they also posted after the Democratic majority had agreed upon us and they try to stand in the way of every Progressive move on the part of the organizations to implement. It's a even objective of a socialist republic but they still remained was in the party. They were they were hampering elements with him and carried out the minimum requirements of membership. In the meantime the situation in the north of Ireland had had changed somewhat from from being an area with a a one-party of oppressive and discriminatory rule Brothers employee, lets rule and the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association was formed in 1968 in the Autumn of 1968 taken to the streets on specific Democratic civil rights demands. And in a totally peaceful manner are they they totally absorbed the use of any kind of physical violence to achieve their aims and objectives and they were successful partly because of the stupidity of depreciation in in in in in openly attacking what was a peaceful Democratic at March also because it demands they made cuts across security barriers and also across political barriers because people found it it possible to support the aims and objectives of the Civil Rights Movement with ocean. Anyway feeling that they were endangering their political beliefs of of of of of the correct. Love unity respect or on the other hand their political beliefs if they wish to see eventually a United Ireland. And so there was a certain amount. I'm not saying it was a massive amount of trust sectarian coming together, but there was a certain amount of cross the Caribbean coming together within the Northern Ireland civil rights movement and the British government of the day did government of previous day's done. It became very frightened that they had at the prospect of a AAA Unity between between the Irish people that might cross the sectarian divide and they did what they had done it many times before but they had in fact on in the end of 1798. Which I have referred. They provoked a military rising or a military attack which they knew from his previous times has always been so that they could contain In August of 1969. They sent the B specials which was an auxiliary police force a particularly sectarian and vicious. Police section of the police force they sent it down into the Catholic Falls Road area of Belfast where they looted and burned houses and where they killed many people and attacked many others that they went on a rampage in other words down in the Catholic Falls area of Belfast in August of 1969. They are there was at that stage, of course necessity to defend the area and the area was in fact the fender to a great extent and looking back on it now since since since so many terrible things have been done. It was it was generally speaking appreciate my old Affair since since so many deaths of a more horrible nature have a card in the meantime, in any case it was contained and the the The View DM attempt by the British to provoke a by their premature attack on them are even an attack of any kind on them might have failed but for one element in 1969 are in a day early 1970 female and minority wing of the Republican movement a traditionalist wing of the Republican movement away from the main body of that organization. They were assisted with funds from the governing government party in the 26 counties at the time on two conditions one condition was that they would not use any arms they might they might purchase with the money that they were receiving in the south of Ireland, but they would confine is all the times that activity is to the north of Ireland and the second condition was that they would have no social perspectives that they would have known they would not get involved in Social agitation of any kind and this these conditions were accepted and the money was accepted and this form the basis of the the arming of the rotational movement which allowed them to to to become an organization of some strengths and the 1970s. I've said they broke away from the main group for the main Republican body. The the difficulty for most people to understand it comes at this point because they didn't change the name. They simply called themselves to professional Republicans and the main body became known as official Republican. This is where a lot of Americans fall down as far as trying to understand the position in Ireland is concerned and it's where I American papers in particular deliberately or or otherwise confuse the issue by simply referring to the IRA instead of making it clear that there are two IRAs totally opposed to each other and pursuing totally opposing aims and objectives and using totally different means The provisional Ira then was the the minority group within the party who pursued the traditionalist Ames in the traditionalist way. I think that's the simplest way that I can explain their aims and objectives and they after August 1969 after they need to defend the Falls was over pursued at campaign of armed violence against the British Army in line with their they're traditionalists point of you. It was nothing inconsistent with with their beliefs in this in this action. They become a socialist organization and was in fact strengthened in considerably by the split because though it had a lot of State a pretty strong minority as I pointed out that Minority had that always being a a restricting factor in any in any serious political left wing work at wanted to engage it was no free to engage in any left. When were kit wish to engage it. It was totally free from the restraining bar. Traditionalist section of the movement and so from our point of view in any case the split was in the long-term a a very desirable and necessary development for Organization for defensive specific areas at any given time and it was the wrong tactic to engage in armed activity against the British Army on under those circumstances. And this is the belief today even under the present circumstances and that the reason for this belief was that it was no longer looked upon by our organization as purely a a nationalist struggle struggle between the Irish in the British army. We had to accept for the first time in our history and this had not being accepted before it had been pushed aside or skimmed over in in in in in statements that came from the movement already had they had tried to ignore it and hope I think I might go away. Cornerstone of the whole problem and that was the existence of a majority of the people in the area who did not want unification who did not want to be separated from Britain. I'm told that they stood if you like between Republican forces and and and the British Army and there was only two ways that they could be dealt with. Either they would be attacked on the same level as the British Army and almost certainly massacred or they could be seen in the Socialist perspective as a parent of the working class population of our country and the the objective at that point had to be to bring the Protestant working class and the Catholic working class together as a prerequisite for eventually Unity. There was no middle way and lots of people have tried for the middle way people who oppose our left-wing ideas and people who opposed the violence of the provisionals have tried to seek a middle course, there is no middle course in the last analysis you either accept the idea of all of War which some groups of Dawn and I will I will come to them in a moment or you accept the the the fact that these are a legitimate part of the Irish working-class, whatever their political views whatever their religion. And whatever the resistance a a person put up to being being seen and in this fashion, they are in fact, not only a a large portion of the artist working for every one of our citizens. They are a million people. The professionals gained a great deal of support especially at the beginning of their campaign largely because they represented this traditional nationalist feeling and also because they were careful to confine their activities to the British army of occupation to British military installations. And so a lot of people while we continue to disagree with our tactics. Nobody slept too much about British casualties if they hadn't been in Ireland, but they wouldn't have been casualties not was the General way people looked upon upon the question then but in about 1972 a change of tactics was adopted by the professionals and they adopted the legitimacy know that they accepted them it just Mercy at that point of a campaign of Terror. To unite the country or to expel British troops, whatever specific aim and objective State. They held Campaign Of Terror was not aimed towards the British forces. It was at the civilian population and it succeeded in killing quite a large number of the civilian population are on a random basis. They weren't they weren't deliberately killed nor were they killed because they were Protestants or Catholics are loyalists are nationalists or black or white or men and women. They were just killed in a random basis when when a warning failed or got garbled or was given to the wrong person or never got through or whatever. There were a lot of bombs went off of those casualties except to add to property but there were also many bums that went off in which a lot of Civilian casualties were a hit. And this from this point looking at it. Now from Hines Hines sight can be can be pinpointed the beginning of the decline in support for violence. And I'm not suggesting at this point. There is no supporter violence in the north that I'm saying that that support has declined rapidly since the provisionals decided on a campaign of Terror at because there is no particular tradition. I mean, I'm not staying with any different than in any other members of the human race, but there is no specific condition of Terror in Ireland and the Republic itself held a fairly high standard of humanitarian concern for the well-being of the welfare of civilians caught up in a conflict in 1956 to 62 for instance. As far as I am aware of the only civilians killed were members of the Republican movement accidentally killed at with their own weapons or whatever, but great care had always been taken to ensure that civilians didn't get accidentally caught up in a car. Fire movement with with with with Republicans in the British Army in for the first time this policy was totally reverse. So I suppose it's true to say that whatever there is here instead of the traditional policy insofar as Armed Force being. The only thing that will that will achieve anything which is is the basic tenets of the provisionals policy and whatever about any other traditionalist things that they accept such as not recognizing courts are not taking seats in Parliament this at least they were able to do without any any any staying on their conscience for individual numbers, but they seem to have been able to tear away the Republican tradition from humanitarian tradition, but it always had to engaging in a terrorist campaign without too much shock set to the rank-and-file members of that movement. And the the the the the campaign of armed civilian bombing. Progressed even still further until eventually the provisional for killing people specifically because they were Protestants and that is the situation today. They are now engaged episode of 3 framed campaign in the north of Ireland. They are still making sporadic attacks in the British army British military installations. They still set off bombs at points at civilian Target points, and they are now engaged in doing Protestants members of the Protestant religion. Sometimes they will say they are retarded reacts and it can be clearly seen but a Catholic was killed in the morning in a problem was killed later that evening but sometimes there's no such a connection and people are simply killed a Protestant simply killed in Cold Blood at without any previous IT If This Were a justification, which it isn't but if it were it cannot be said that they the killing of Protestants is always a retaliatory Act. B position then was that the there was this arms campaign of the results of this term campaign was of course the smash any tentative Unity there had been between the two sections of the population within the civil rights movement and a between political groups before the Civil Rights Movement to get off the ground and he was totally smashed Not only was it smashed but the two sides are pushed into total polarization against each other. Until about eight weeks ago when the peace movement started in Belfast the recent peace movement. They had up to this being sporadic Cinemark just by small groups of people on specific incidents and I think the most of it was ever came out with a couple of hundred people that they were always of one religion are the other they were never a mixture and they usually said prayers or whatever and disappeared and did the movement never proceeded from Bassett it it just disappeared but but eight weeks ago the was called to the site of the place for three children had been run down by a runaway car. In which the provisionals had Visions have guns County rate of some kind or another they had been found out by the Army who had followed them in the car. And open fire killing the driver of the car went out of control and it smashed into a woman and three children walking along the footpath and kill the three children and seriously injure their mother and then the evening of the funeral of the children two women came together one was the aunt of the children and a woman who wasn't as far as I know involved with the family at all came together and said that they would have a peace March after the funeral to the spot for the children have been killed and I don't think anybody thought that it would be anything very great except another couple hundred people coming say few prayers and the Robos would stay discreetly out of Psych and psych. They having the two involved in the killing of the children would all be over the next day people would forget about it, but it didn't turn out like that mainly because of people turned out for a peace March and significant fee for the first time since 1968 a small group of protestant women crossed over from the shankill road and marched on the peace Dentistry. They hadn't been invited if it hadn't been seen as a Catholic crime in a Catholic area on something that the Catholics should Express concern about. But the Protestants had moved over I'm taking part in the March some of them small group and on 2nd March the Protestants were specifically invited invitations were sent over to Protestant Community groups in the ghetto and they had responded by hiring buses and coming over in Fairly large numbers very large numbers. And as I said, this wasn't the first time since 1968 at the point where most people in Ireland whatever their political persuasion would have said there was no possible coming together between the Protestant and Catholic people on any issue. They infect came together on the issue of peace. The women's peace movement. I think it might be fair to say and it. I think it's early days to analyze it yet. People want to go into it's it's it's history in to analyze it point-by-point. I think far too soon because it it's it's it's still a very young movement as far as Irish organizations Co I go I suppose it could disappear in the morning, but I think that's very unlikely but there's one can judge they made the simple demand for peace. No Peace by any one group as a sit there sometimes Representatives as simply being Auntie provisional. They have demanded that everybody using violence in the north of Ireland should stop and that includes the British Army and the loyalist paramilitaries, but they don't see I think they merely as a beginning they might see faces in and of itself or simply is an absence of war and that's probably indicates a sort of a lack of political Awareness on their power from the other hand. It is possible to make any further demands wood. At this point alienation people who are sort of just on the edge of accepting a common a common requirement to come and demand and it is possible that they are perfectly correct and not making any further demands. They have not objected to the further demands made fences by the Trade union movement who have demanded peace and usually and got on then to Dora to demand things like full employment immediate emergency steps by the government to create full employment create conditions decent housing conditions for the demands on electrical issues, which would eliminate discrimination against any section of the population so that there is a movement demanding those things as well as a simple peace movement and our organization ceasefire 1972 and it's held it since 5 with the with the reservation that they can defend themselves or retaliation the case of particular atrocities has made the demand for peace. Is a revolution we demand notice a reformist a mandar is a a liberal demand or even as a humanitarian demand however desirable but maybe but as a revolutionary demand in the north for many years now at revolutionary because we see any progress any political progress in the north totally impossible under the present War conditions. And if any group is if we are to to catch up on eight years of retardation as far as musical activity is concerned we need peace we need stability. We need a. Of come in which people will not be afraid to go out and open the identify themselves with political ideology education education monks the mass of the people political ideology that they may hold all this is impossible in the circumstances of the north of the impossible for many years. Which way we see pieces so important and we have supported the women's movement by individuals marching in their in their in their in their peace marches and we have also supported the Unionps Adam and which is closer to our own beliefs in that it does not stop at the simple demand for Peace by encouraging all our members who are trade unionists to assist this this drive for peace and organized in in in in small groups around late that the stage for these aims and objectives. I think it's I think it's probably spoken for a fairly long time, but I started I've simply done is I have given you a Fairly simplified I think idea of the position in the north of our invisible. The different groups are there are other groups there are various elements of a lot between them in fact except degree, but they are engaged in armed attacks against Catholics on occasion. We have come into conflict with Jeremy but only on specific and few occasions. There is no socialist element in any organized to sense among the loyalist paramilitaries some of the leadership have on occasion. I made reference to something or other which would show that they were beginning to see that there was in fact a common oppression most Catholics and Protestants, but nothing to to to any significant extent and nothing that would would would organize a socialist element within the Protestant paramilitaries. The Catholic political party official Catholic political party is a Social Democrat. It is a sectarian political party. It is makes no appeal to Protestants and it is it Prides itself on representing the Catholic minority particular standpoint at the moment is that there should be a A restitution of the regional parliament in Belfast which was abolished and that unlock restitution. There should be power sharing that is there should be a specific amount of seats for Catholics and the specific amount for Protestants. And this is there a Cornerstone of their policy at the moment. This is their attempt to see in midway between all out war against and the way of socialism which is to United Protestant and Catholic working-class their middle way is power-sharing at which our organization in any case looks upon as institutionalized sectarianism and even if it if it's that were desirable which it is not it couldn't possibly work at that would be a break down as it has been in the same situation in the Lebanon where they they they had power sharing for some time. And our our position on a regional Parliament is that if this is what is needed as an interim measure to in any way reassure the Protestants that there is no immediate attack on their religion on their their their their beliefs than original part of it is perfectly acceptable, but it must be a regional Parliament which is dedicated to the idea of majority rule if that majority rule is Loyola some Protestant and there are fears that they would simply resume the old loyal Union as part is discriminatory policies policies against Catholics, then the demand is of the immediate and strong Bill of Rights should be implemented at which would guarantee the rights of any minority, but particularly the Catholic minority and I think that is a fair description of a fence. Is it from my point of view? I don't pretend to give a description from any point of you except the point of view of the Republican movement the official Republican movement and anybody here who wants an exposition of the stand of the provisional can a depth, you know, what's come to the wrong meeting. There's no point of agreement between ourselves and professionals. There is no area in which we would could possibly come together with a provisionals on any short-term or long-term objective and I think this ought to be made quite clear to anybody when future reads about things being done by the IRA simply the IRA in American newspapers. In nine cases out of ten what is being referred to as the provisional Ira whose aims and objectives and tactics I have described you. I think what I will do now is to bring it to a halt and ask questions. And if you would like for instance frappe some discussion on how things have developed in the south. Then we could go into that same question time. When I would like to ask a question. I listen to ask Brook about the extent of the support that Sinn Fein receives in Ireland have partial support nor is there any areas where people would hardly walk the same side of the road that you were on generally speaking? Of course, we don't have we don't have support because if we had we wouldn't be having our say party. We would we would be in control we would be in government. So we don't have majority support we have approximately at any given election about 89% OC of the the votes cast. And whether that would be an accurate picture or not would depend because of me as in America less than half of the people. Now, we're voting in any given election on specific Sprint since we might get a great deal of support that we wouldn't get on another issue, like for instance the issue of the nationalization of violence natural resources. That is something that very few people would actually object to if it were if it were to be done and they would agree with our point of view on us without committing themselves to agreeing with us another points. You know down the middle description of our strength way vs. As with all political organization at this point the first in a series of questions was asked about two Irish American groups, which have local chapters in the Twin Cities Irish Northern Aid and the Irish National caucus these groups send money to Ireland. They claim that the money is used only to help prisoners and their families and for other humanitarian purposes, but the burqa was skeptical will my belief is that and it's not just with regard to the other situation or with regard to Americans. I'm a true with regard to any political appeals for finance. And that is the any adult should not contribute to a cause when he is not sure what the money is going to a far and if he is in doubt that he should not do it particularly in areas of the world. Where there there there there is armed conflict. The position is that money given to the provisionals buys arms and kill civilians. That is fact. There's no there's no getting around that now if you agree with that, it is your Democratic right to send the money, but I don't think that you should try and fool yourself that you're sending money to help the children in Belfast or that you're sending money to help the prisoners dependents or whatever. You should recognize what you were sending money far. Be honest enough and courageous enough to admit it and say that you believe that this is the only solution to the Irish question and you don't care who their happened to be bombing or killing. It's all necessary. That's what I'm most objected to that the sort of the hypocrisy that goes on rather than the money that's being sent on people when you actually tackle people they say, oh, I'm not sending money to buy bombs. Are they have taken no steps to to find out what they're sending money far. And I think that they are good Criterion for anyone sending money 24in cause is to find out what the particular group there supporting is doing on the ground and what affect their activities are having on the working class population of that country. And if they if they agree with it, then it is their right to send money if they want to send money, but I should be honest about her. There was a lot of water allegations a woman who identified herself as a secretary treasurer of the Saint Paul chapter of Irish Northern Aid claim that the US defense department and the US state department have both assured her group that Irish Northern Aid money does not go to terrorist activities furthermore. She said the group's books are completely open and they have been vouched for by the Internal Revenue Service to Brooker said that you didn't trust the state department of the defense department or the IRS. And then she was asked about the bombing of the Gresham hotel that's a bomb in which the broker says has apparently been attributed to Protestant loyalists terrorist. She quickly went on to compare products and violence with what she called the Catholic violence of the provisional Ira totally leaving aside. The humanitarian point of view. There was no earthly reason why anybody should blow up the British Ambassador you represented British rule in Ireland. All right, in in the same extent of the American ambassador represents American ruling the French Ambassador represents French group of a kind but nothing could be achieved by murdering him because the ambassadors are dispensable, you know, there's one there's one following up me to play somebody had to prove he could break through a security barrier and such a bomb under the ambassador's car. It was a kind of cocking a snook at the Irish government security thing, which the same result could have been achieved by using a dummy bomb, but it's the mentality of the day if you like it wouldn't ever have been done years ago because it was a certain down there. You know, even the most enemies there was a certain are there certain things you didn't do to people but that is being just it's not just Ireland. It's a part of a worldwide trend on the people who are carrying out these activities consider themselves left-wing in some way which is a total Distortion of socialism in a distortion of any left-wing ideology because what it does, in fact about the killing of the British Ambassador did was to pave the way for the government to introduce Fierce and repressive laws in the South and that was all it achieved and people will be going to prison in 10 years. Hence because somebody had to give himself the personal satisfaction of proving he could break through a security barrier and that was only the chief the bottom of the Gresham was exactly the same from the other side. Dibroca was then asked about her role in the Irish Republican movement my own personal rule. Well, I think that it's important that I have a role as a woman as well as as a socialist because political movements and my own is no different. I'm have bean and sometimes still are a male domination organizations. They tend to see Liberation purely in terms of traditional terms if you like and they tend not to take into account the whole question of women's rights at they don't friend sends a lot of them except that you could have a socialist society in which we would still be oppressed as women. I'm even though this is being admitted by such people has Sido Castro who expressed himself in a recent partake of a commemoration as being dissatisfied with the level of achievement by women in in Cuba since Liberation and I think the men and some women prefer not to think along these lines that they like the simplistic Outlook that if you if you join a political party and work generally for socialism, then you are all from a sickly working towards the liberation of woman. I think that this has been proven not to be so not necessarily. So in any case unless there is a strong women's movement within the Socialist organization within the Socialist movement that projects the women's cause at all points. Of the struggle and doesn't allow friends instincts beside like we're engaged in a death struggle with friends and just take for example of movement say during the time when we were under Fierce attack by the provisionals and there was a terrible situation on the ground in the north at with regard to our members. You could have got some people saying look don't bother us with women's rights. This is the priority of the day or if they were being attacked by the British army are there was a big campaign on Election or something and it is up to Women Within the organization to make sure there's no point. However serious the situation however desperate the situation that the rights of women are asked us to take a second place. They must March side-by-side with with the other elements of of Liberation and I think that would be a specific job for me to do within the movement apart altogether from from activity on on on on other issues. I think that's probably true of any woman in any revolutionary movement a woman wet earlier disagreed with the broke his criticisms of the Irish Northern Aid now wanted to know how to brew could call the Southern Republic of Ireland discriminatory since she said two of the Catholic countries for presidents have been Protestant. Well, first of all, there is a point that the Protestant population of the South constitute less than 5% of the population and there's no need to discriminate against a group which is as small as that second of all, we like everybody else in the world have taken in a great way to tokenism. We have our token women. We have our token Protestants and I would suggest that the president you refer to where our token Protestants everybody was being terribly liberal about them that but they weren't being so terribly liberal about them that they changed the law of the land which force those Protestant presidents and their Protestant fellow countrymen to accept the dogma of the Catholic Church. What are they liked it or not or go to jail? And there is there is no discrimination in jobs against Protestants. There is a distinct discrimination against Protestants in education, since they are always in minority areas and they don't receive the same educational facilities that Catholics do because they're in such a majority in some areas. They go to the same National schools as if they were blacks in America, you know where we're not so bad to them. They can draw the dole the same as the rest of us. The point is that there is enshrined in the law of the land just discovered America you have you have laws, which at least say blacks are free in Ireland. We don't even pretend to say the Protestant the freedom of conscience because they don't the law of the land is in line with moral teaching of the Catholic church. And if they don't obey it then they stand like everybody else to go to prison. There's no divorce in Ireland a Protestant with whom it is perfectly within his conscience. To be divorced and remarry can be charged with bigamy in Ireland. There is no proper the system of family planning in Ireland and anybody Protestant or Catholic who wishes to use Family Planning methods are contraceptive methods could find himself in court and in prison and not because of of of of of of civil liberties groups because because the Catholic church has said we don't allow divorce. We don't allow contraception. There's no other reason for the appearance on the statute books of these two laws none at all and it has been admitted by the Ministers of government that they oppose contraception because the Catholic Church opposes contraception and it's just too bad for the minority who wish to use contraception another audience member ask Brook about what she called the repressive legislation in southern Ireland as the other two incidents. When was the blowing up of the British ambassador's car and the other was the explosion Green Street Courthouse in which five people who are being will be a five people have been trying Escaped and forward me just to be captured the government use this as an excuse up to this point. They had been saying that we are well able to deal with the situation in on the ground in the 26 counties. The police are doing a great job in the usual sort of things. They say suddenly because of these two incidents. They said that there was a severe security problem. I want a lot of people were concerned with a particularly cold blooded unpleasant act. They didn't feel that it comes to choosing a National Emergency are that it couldn't have been dealt with in in in in perfectly Army police investigations and uncertainty. Nobody felt all that upset about growing up Green Street, cuz nobody was hurt very little actual damages done to the building of the people were he captured almost immediately. However, the government choose to look upon it as an excuse to say first of all, we have to abridge the Constitution. Because the Constitution guarantees civil liberties and and and protection from from from police Powers. First of all, we have to reach the Constitution having done and the only way we can do that is by declaring a state of National Emergency and having done that we can bring in all kinds of laws and they managed to get this passed through the parliament old with no time, even though it was demanded by the opposition demanded by civil liberties groups demanded by individuals trade unionist, whatever that they should prove that there was a state of National Emergency that they should somehow say that the majority in Parliament. They managed to get the bills to the house and part of the provisions are a severe attack on the freedom of comments by the Press of the army has been given wide powers of Civilian activity or activity against civilians, which they have never had in the history of the state before people can be held for 7 days without charger trial they can be released. Another seven days and I could go on at infinitum. They can close down buildings which they say they suspect are being used for specific various purposes. But the prison at the present illicit has changed overnight is the president refuse to sign the bills and send them to the Supreme Court to be adjudged on the constitutionality. And if the government had to prove it was a state of emergency, I think they might just be thrown out but I suppose we'll see the constitution of of the of the Supreme Court that might happen but that it that is the present situation could it it did the Bills themselves are the laws themselves don't specifically refer say to a friend since the provisional Ira or even to the official Ira or even to the loyalist paramilitary. So come down and they simply refer in in general to people and that is the reason why so many people fear them because while a state may have a perfect right to take such action is it To protect the lives and they did the safety of its citizens. It should specifically State against machine guns. I don't think many people would have objected but it just said people in general on this could refer to almost anybody who at any stage opposes the government whether it's it's in in what we believe. Is there a time of coming social unrest because of unemployment while because of cosine of a factory Trade Union City in our Trade union strike or because of agitation among students in colleges, and I'm campuses and it is because of his willingness of of the wording which is delivering. It's not accidental the people who do it up or lawyers and the willingness of the wording leaves it open to be used against anyone in the stage and we believe that it's not intended against the Provo. So it's not intended against us primarily. It's intended against people who may engage in any kind of vegetation in a. Known almost inevitable. Spacing of social unrest in in in in the south of Ireland finally was asked about the day today political activity of the Sinn Fein. We have work to the best of our ability in specific areas such as we initiated. I think it was the beginning of last year and then to sectarian campaign intensive campaign of post ring only flipping in the Protestant and Catholic areas with information are used by the British to keep the Irish divided white with being used by the capitalist class. Keep the working class divided. How is the people who were chanting slogans of one side Or Another We're simply Dukes on the three slogans for no relation to the the actual fact. Their lives are you explaining going into detail and not you're saying it's bad for Catholics hate Protestants in his bad for Protestants and Catholics the going into the historical reasons why Security in ISM had to be developed and maintained by the imperialists by the oppressors and calling on people to reject at 6 arianism because they were being used in this Fashion on to join together uncommon class issues the difficulty we had was of course the people who told on a poster for not the Protestants all that much the Catholics except for the provisionals have other words British Army who you say you have a vested interest in maintaining sectarianism unto him a poster saying Security in ISM kills workers is more of a threat than a poster saying going to the British army. Are you spell diminish army or whatever because the only thing that can expel the British army is an into Security in ISM. And that is why it is it is a greater threat to them. So we have weave weave difficulties. Not with that wood was our major campaign last year, but we have we are aware that we engage in in campaigns in a local level on the street level. If you like specifically on new plan to the city employment a trade Union activities housing particularly on housing since it's so desperate in in the north and needs of the day unless I was our main thrust is on the is in the Trade union movement and on the subject of the control of natural resources, which is a key Point as far as the economic situation in this house is concerned. We're also engagement on education on the educational system. I were engaged in within the Trade union movement and outside of the Trade union movement on demand on women's rights demands on civil liberties issues. Eradication activity within the movement that would be the day-to-day struggles that we would be engaged in. I want to thank you for attending this to me is going to Dudley art of the morning to attend a public meeting of any kind on for for listening. Very patiently. I really enjoyed meeting. Thank you very much.