All of the other countries of the world farms and produce their food the same way that we do. The world would run out of fossil fuel in 28 years the world can only afford one United States in 1969 in November. The price of a barrel of oil in the Persian Gulf was $1.69 the same November one day. I want to a coffee shop. For luncheon, I had a hamburger. With the tip I paid over $2. One barrel of oil for one hamburger is not justifiable even in 1969. It was not forecast the energy crisis. And then proceeded to develop a an energy policy that it was predicated on the presumption that fossil fuels would soon expire of the Congress would have been turned out of office and locked up. Because people said that crazy old man not true. Lots of gas talk to my Standard Oil Dealer this morning and thank you both nuts, Minnesota 7th District Congressman Bob Bergland before he came we heard Ambassador fereydoon Veda from the oil producing nation of the ran and the first voice you heard was that of Rodger blough bomb and agricultural consultant from Creston, Iowa who recently returned from studying agriculture in communist China. They're just three of the experts who spoke at sessions of the food and fuel Institute that took place in Detroit Lakes Fergus Falls in Moorhead during March and April of this year. The Institute was organized by Morehead State University. And dr. Anoosh cash cash. It was supported by the Minnesota Humanities commission and Moorhead Area Chamber of Commerce and the tri College Center for Environmental Studies. The discussions of The Institute or wide-ranging but it's altamed purpose was to create an awareness of the problems. We Face nationally and internationally as a result of the interrelationship between Agriculture and the supply of energy besides the usual experts retain for meeting such as these a group of local humanist was also present to inject that perspective into the proceedings in addition to reacting to Talks by the experts. The humanist were also involved in small-group discussions with citizens from Detroit Lakes Fergus Falls in Morehead and those discussions citizens and humanist Define the food and fuel problem and suggested Solutions during the next hour We're Going To Hear parts of the small group discussions as well as excerpts from speeches and interviews with the before mentioned experts would begin with the talk by Bob Bergland the outlines the problems from his point of view as a US congressman. A position that makes him responsible for developing workable policies to deal with the problems of food and fuel Congressman Berglund. the Congo public at Large we can do more we can do no more. And should do no less. Then the hundred million people who vote will allow us to do or demanded we do. Generally, we characterize ourselves those of us in the Congress as leaders. And while it's true that there are some who have served some claim to fame and certain specialized topic areas. The fact of the matter is that we tend to follow the Gallup poll. Not because that's the expedient way of running the Affairs of State. But if the Congress should follow the advice of Albert Einstein in 1927 when he forecast the energy crisis. Add and proceeded to develop he and energy policy that it was predicated on the presumption that fossil fuels would soon expire of the Congress would have been turned out of office and locked up. And so all these years even though most of us have known that there is a limited supply of fuels have been unable to act in the legislative process. Because the people lie represent did not believe that a crisis was at hand. It was not until the Arab Embargo of the two years ago. That the majority of the people in this country suddenly sat up and took notice and even at that time did not believe that there was a crisis but rather believe that this was a conspiracy between Exxon and Nixon and others and charge a conspiracy design only to defraud the consumer of his or her hard-earned dollar. As has been pointed out. However, these fuels are in finite Supply. andaz We are commencing to consider public policy question of food Reserves. We obviously have to examine the question of hills. The world's population has doubled in my lifetime on 47. If God gives me 30 years it will double again in my lifetime. And there is no way the world can feed 8 billion people. Unless we find a magic new source of energy. There are no new continent to be discovered. There are no New Frontiers to be homesteaded. There are some lands in South America that can be developed in there are lands in other parts of the world that can be irrigated. But from here on out the Improvement in the food production capability will be governed and limited by the supply of energy. And so we in the business of lawmaking are confronted with some tough choices. There are certain truths that we know to be a fact. And yet we have the problem of convincing the 500,000 people in each of the 435 congressional districts that indeed we must change our ways. Because we have grown accustomed to getting about as much as we needed of about whatever we wanted. And live with the mistaken impression that there were unlimited supplies of anything times have changed. The reserves that were taken for granted up until a few years ago. I have now been reduced to the point where they are quite properly classified as a strategic Reserve. And so as we Ponder these questions about this exploding population in the world and all of it all that pretends. We have two lines of thought generally building up a head of steam. When is the classic isolationist theory that who cares what happens in South America or the Asian subcontinent or Africa? Is it any of our business? Therefore we are to withdraw from the world politically and economically and bill of lading and arm The Fortress called the United States of America. The policy with which I happen to disagree because I think it would result in our end. We'd simply be overwhelmed by sheer numbers. The other I think of more in life in policy suggests. That we do need to be a part of. And have a heavy hand in the development of a the world and Global policy and the area of food and fuel. Therefore we have to make tough choices. Do we want to set aside The Limited supplies of natural gas. So, we now know we have and can control for the manufacture of nitrogen fertilizer in order to increase yields to feed this expanding population and Rising standard of living. Or do we want to do as we've been doing use those gases to generate electricity and heat our homes and go on as though they're all was well. The time will come in our lifetime when we have to make that choice. The time will come sooner than most of us think I believe it will happen. It'll be on us in less than 5 years. We here in the Upper Midwest are in a unique and a very difficult position. in the energy area about half the fuels we burn in the region from Montana through the Dakotas, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan are of Canadian origin. web24 refineries but depending whole are in large part in Canadian crude oil. The largest independent refinery in the United States is located in Minnesota down in South Saint Paul. entirely dependent on Canadian crude About a third of a natural gas is consumed in this region is of Canadian origin. Canadians and Americans have evolved a policy in which we hear in the High Plains states. The Upper Midwest have developed a dependency on the Canadians for this fuel source. They in turn have chip Fields into their Eastern cities from offshore And so the Canadians became as vulnerable to the Arab boycott is weak. Boycott that might be imposed on them at any time. And they therefore felt it was in their interest that they develop a policy of self-sufficiency. policy with which no reasonable person could disagree implicit net profit station is equipped ailment of exports of oil to the United States. Announced and put in place two years ago phased-in over an eight-year. We're now in the third phase of that plan. So far the export the curtailment of exports of affected only refineries in the state of Washington in the Puget Sound area. The rationing of this fuel is left to our own government Federal Energy Administration. by the end of 1978 the impact of that curtailment will be felt here in the Midwest. Morehead is on Canadian natural gas and it's going to be cut off. It's just a matter of how much time we may have. The independent refineries operating in this region are going to be cut off Canadian field. We're examining alternatives. One of which one I'm endorsing and have joined in on. Is a construction of a pipeline across? Canada from the Arctic islands of the North Slope bring crude oil into this region to bring natural gas into this region that proposition Makes much sense economically, but politically is encountered serious difficulties. This would be a program that would cost them the magnitude of 15 to 20 billion dollars the Canadian cannot afford to finance it. They're not sure they can stand that you can unpack impact of having infusion about much money in the Canadian Prairie Provinces over a relatively short. Of time. There are certain environmental concerns. Obviously that have to be reckoned with In any event the feels that would come into this region by that system will cost about three times the prices we've been accustomed to pain. And so even with that sort of Supply we're looking at gasoline's produced from that fuel source that run on the order of a dollar in $0.40 a gallon. And Home Heating bills and natural gas will at least double above the present rate. Does Canadians have established as a pricing policy and natural gas? I program the prices gas to the United States at the highest rate. They can find charge in this country. And that's the interest rate in the state of Oklahoma. Intrastate rate in Oklahoma. And so the Canadians have seized upon that has a market price and established. That is the price for gas to the consumers more head than towns all up and down this region. Because they're not interested in continuing to sell his gas. They need that for their own people in the towns of Toronto Montreal and Ottawa and such places in the Eastern region. And so we are confronted with a very difficult problem. We know that the Canadians are going to curtail us and we understand why. If we construct a trans Canadian system, it will be years in the building if started at all. And if concluded would result only in very very expensive fuels. That would have an impact in economic impact on this region. It would be substantial. We don't know what the net result of that impact might be without would obviously raise the cost of producing food. We we assumed it probably would make Leisure Living in this region in the winter time prohibitive. People would be forced to move to warmer climates. And there could be many social and economic. Change has put upon us as a consequence of that sudden and abrupt increase in price. The one resource. It's in our backyard is lignite coal of North Dakota. There's more energy under the topsoil in North Dakota than there is in all of the proven oil reserves of the United States and Alaska combined. So then the question is can we or should we? Find a way of harnessing that as an alternative to some of the Canadian dependency. And I need to go into the details because this issue because you're aware of it. There are certain things that we're doing at the federal level in this regard. We have twice passed a surface coal mining bill twice has been vetoed by the president and twice. We've been unable to override The veto. Even if the surface mining legislation passes, it will have little or no impact upon the state of North Dakota because that state is operating now under a law that is probably more strict than the federal proposition that would preempt states that have done nothing. And there are other environmental concerns. About how does one harness cold? Does one load these onboard 200 car trains and come roaring through these towns all hours of the day and night. It's a form of pollution. That's a nuisance. And it's difficult to live in a community where this is taking place of choice. The other would be mine mouth generating systems where they build electric plants on the mouth of the mines in North Dakota and transmit the energy by poles and wire. We either objections to that. the pollution of the landscape they are a nuisance. They're unsightly. And expensive has become a concern in the minds of many. We have an enormous research and development program in the energy area under way authorized by the Congress of the United States. The benefits of which I have not yet been felt. We're experimenting with Ways and Means of transmitting electricity. And I found out how to do it by radio. We now have the technical capability of building and floating. a solar satellite the technology from this has been gleaned from the space program. And I know that this is a 30 billion dollar commitment. It's been invested in the space area. Much of which has been ridiculed by many and my district has an enormous waste of the taxpayers money because what did we get? We got a handful of rocks from the Moon. Indeed. We acquired an enormous amount of experience. In constructing satellites that are capable of harnessing solar power. Harnessing the radioactivity from the Sun not the Heat. Radioactivity is gathered and satellites in geosynchronous orbit at 23000 miles altitude. And so the technology in that regard has been developed. The major hang-up is in transmitting that to Earth. We got really well spring wire is from here to a satellite 23,000 miles out. That's not a viable alternative experiments are now underway transmitting That Power by laser. Systems and extremely high-frequency lightning they can carry electrical power through that system. But that laser light beam is his devastating thing. An airplane flies through it it's done. If it if it's misdirected if it gets off the Target that may have a pick up station someplace here and in rural Clay County and if it misses that Target, it might burn a Fargo. These are things that are the can't be overlooked. And so while the technology is being developed it's by no means perfected solar power is ultimately the source of energy. And our scientists tell us that while we have still much to learn in the application of this when it does come it too will be very expensive. And it preps is 50 years off even with the increased effort that has been undertaken by the Congress and authorizing a research and development in the solar power area. So the Congress is confronted principally with the intermediate choices. hazards on the advantages of nuclear power of being debated In this region, we have the resources of the Kohl's of North Dakota as a source of power that needs to be developed as a replacement principally for stationary uses. We have not yet found a practical way of energizing a tractor by electricity. But we could use electric electric power to heat our homes. Drive many of our appliances provide the kinds of things and stationary sources that gases and field oils are now doing Here again, we run into I'm not saying a bro blocked we run into the local problems that arise. And you're aware of many of them. I'm sure. This I think summarizes what I prepared to say. Thank you very much. Minnesota Congressman Bob Bergland speaking at a session of the food and fuel Institute held in Morehead this spring next we go to a discussion held at Detroit Lakes hear a group of humanist send local citizens considered the implications of using coal as an intermediate fuel source. Just as Congressman Berglund has suggested and his talk and I just last Saturday Rock Robert Bergman said that we got to develop this cold and and then the Northern Great Plains or we got to do it in a way that that does not affect affect the environment. as much as I Michael Oliver Wyoming Montana North Dakota, South Dakota and Colorado and Utah and not affect the environment. That's a total impossibility all the time. I have seen the same quarrying if Winston said that you were absent in Germany. Play Spellbound. So carefully of course they have Disturbed the environment. not too it's you must you must take into account the rainfall annual rainfall, which is the fact. Just blows up about and the consumer. It's going to cost them $0.50 a kilowatt hour electricity for going to pay $40,000 to reclaim an acre left and they won't pay it. So that's Reclamation was possible. I'm congested is it maybe we'll be in two thousand years that Lando go back to Something in 2,000 years, but we're not going to put it back now, but there's another question. I don't think we're asking ourselves if we do take 40 billion tons of coal out of Montana and twice that much are Dakota and we've dumped we consume this with burned it. What are the loads of pollution that were put into the air the sulfur dioxides here again? And something is finite is our ability to absorb. The code is a runoff. The fact is that we think that the old reserve of the word whatever they said it is or what is going to be exhausted much shorter in the metro to Ben vehicle reserves that we have a pending according to the statistics that are married we can live on code for another two under 300 years. I know that. 1550 is that we have four. Then we have managed to control during nuclear power or solar power or wind power or tidal power and create energy. Where were selling selling future Generations was selling alone? I think after after we've got Montana and North Dakota all strip-mined out. We're going to be needing so much cole we're going to have to find five more month has to keep going on so much more energy. And even if we could go to totally renewable resources are resources. If we did not we are going to be in the kind of problem that you are right. Now. You do realize it right now in this country. I'm not arguing that we have a problem of energy. We have a problem if I giving us food because if indeed the family cannot pay for his food, he's not going to produce Republic not to listen here that we have a problem of unemployment. We have a problem and all of these are handicapping is to find out other means resources for energy from his home to his lab to find out whether he can find some other alternatives for energy and our science technology and Industry is handicap. Then we are sending our future generation because we are sitting okay, let's stop because we cannot produce animal these are going to end badly by using these maybe we are helping future Generations because in this 200 300 years that we are exhausting our current resources, we will be Because of an industry of our Science and Technology could use some other source of energy. Now we don't have to have all of these problems simultaneously with Ryan thing called technological progress the handicap to the the investigation of alternative sources of energy is not that we think technology is wrong is that that that the research is funded by private owners of timezones the send that did Russians are using Lake Baikal. They are strip mining the garden sporting good environment in the name, not of free enterprise capitalism. We have a system. That we've not been accustomed to for heroin fixes a day. We like to get accustomed to 60. I don't think I am going. Which inevitably? But the sooner the crunch comes the better. How are you going to feed the world discussion sponsored by The Institute on food and fuel in Detroit Lakes, Minnesota. Very often in discussions about the energy crisis and the high cost of oil the oil-producing countries of OPEC are singled out as the culprits. They're charged with manipulating the energy market and causing inflation in the industrial West your Indian ambassador to the United Nations Peridot, Nevada disagrees with those charges. He says that the low price of Mideast oil in the Years between World War II and the formation of OPEC actually contributed more fundamentally to our energy crisis in recent price hikes by the oil-producing Nations. He outlined his reasons in an interview before the increase in the price of old by the OPEC countries and experts had warned some in the evenin 250. I remember the United Nations found a report where experts were saying that the Peterbilt resource and it could come before the end of the century and Alternate sources should be firm, but nobody would hate to do it because the prices of old were so long. Artificially low that the people who are not heating to the prophets of Doom. Why were the prices so low and those periods after World War II because the company's the major companies what in due to the economic? Jargon record the seventh sister, we're trying to make more benefits. So they were trying to kill the other sources of energy in order to send more old, but the only way to destroy for example do record industry was to bring the prices of old down in order that old industry would turn to Old a source of energy and the price of all discouraged investors in Resort for alternate source of energy. So you'd feel that a rise in the price of oil is actually equitable's thing and a good thing for this country and for the world as I have explained several times and yesterday in my tool. The price of old was not only artificially low. It was also and just who are the people of the car and producing countries and I gave that example of my experience in New York City in 1969 in November 69. The price of a barrel of oil in my country was $1 69 and I want to a coffee shop. I had to hamburger and coffee and orange juice and I paid over $2. Was it just to pay Run Battle of old for one hamburger while we know that protein wise a bottle of old can produce hundreds of Ember. This is this is which would be always in the mind of the public it was and just now we are aware of the problems which were created for Bose system developed countries. Let me tell you one thing. We don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Do we need to technology? We don't want to kill the United States or the other industrial countries on the contrary, but take into account the fact that the price was and Trust And that even if we get more money, we are going to buy more from you curse of the American public view the rise in prices by the OPEC nations as a form of political leverage or an artificial sort of price hike because we've been so Swift and I wonder if you see that that's Swift Rise in the prices really did some damage to the world economy and to the The OPEC nations in the eyes of the other nations of the world when we have to wipe out on the ACT official propaganda around the studies conducted by the Secretariat of the oecd. That means the organization the economy car rental shop European countries that the sudden increase in the price of gold in 1974 and 75 entered into the old are all rise of prices in industrial countries for only 2%. More. So most of the causes of the crisis play somewhere else and ambassador to the United Nations ferido, Nevada another speaker at a recent food and fuel Institute meeting in Moorhead. Now, let's listen in on another discussion of the problem by citizens and humanists. with our ability Jack almost consumption consumption Can accurately describe census in a matter of months? All at once we had a fuel crisis. When are we that is our research that bad that we can't do that poor that we can't anticipate these problems further in advance and we did before and said there's going to be a natural gas shortage and then they began they changed a little while saying no, there's not a gas shortage and recent survey of the US Geological Survey said we have enough natural gas for a hundred years of the other day in North Dakota and you don't have to worry about natural gas and one of the gas company's doing we know exactly what they do when they can get more money. It seems to me that we've been conned. I think we've been conned about this for Days Inn in many respects that so there is no more supplies supplies directly proportional to the price. That's right. That's exactly it. Well, I just got my feeling for many years and you don't get too many people agree with me. I don't know why you say that to create or we could discover and then did you suggest that she liked him he may be conned. And we can create those statistics one way or another and neither of them can be sure because you don't have enough surprise, but we were scared. You know people I used to walk the dog people Garner automobile late pick up other people know because there's going to be a gas shortage no Lucy going down University Avenue one person in the car. So we're not afraid anymore and maybe when I cry wolf really it's going to be the crisis the real prices, but we've been Morehead citizens in humanists from the food and fuel in to discussing the frustration and countered when trying to sort out facts about the energy crisis. Addressing the food side of the food and energy problem. Most directly during The Institute was Mr. Rodger blough bomb for Obama is an independent agricultural consultant serving both government and private clients. You recently returned from a tour of communist China or he studied their methods of Agriculture. His talk was before a concurrent meeting of the institute on food and fuel and a conference on feeding the world sponsored by several groups from Morehead State University, but the struggle against kind and never before I think has the outcome been so much in doubt now, they're about 200,000 additional people. Every day and most most of the experts agree that the world population by the year 2080 to 2005 or 2010 is going to double to a figure of 7 billion people and you consider that at a time when we're not now doing very well really in many parts of the world in feeding half that number and has been as has been pointed out. The amount of arable land in the world is pretty well under production. There are no real pioneering areas left at one time in 1974. We were down to only 28 days grain Supply in the world. That was at a time when we were becoming involved ourselves in all our production. We have only a handful of Nations who now export grain of which we are the main one. But of course we respond very well in this country at least as individuals. I think although not always our government to responding to these kinds of needs but responding in terms of relief in the reserves in this sort of thing is really a short-term answer to a very long-term problem. The real answer is far as a real food situation is concern is to help those Nations that are developing to be self-sufficient if possible or at least to produce to meet most of their own requirements so that the answer is and stimulating the right kind of development and to develop an agriculture that is an enduring Agriculture and one that is labor-intensive in most of these areas because I most of the developing countries do have surpluses of Labor and not an energy-intensive kind of Agriculture. I think it's very fortunate that these two kinds of conferences are being held together here today because this is a a very relate kind of subject now in recent years there has been the approach called the Green Revolution. Now those parts of the Green Revolution that are energy-intensive should be looked at with great care. Now. There are other parts that do not involve energy and the using up of non-renewable resources. And those are the parts of the Green Revolution that that we should look at it and attempt to help develop in other parts of the world, but I think the Green Revolution when it started out and this was at a. Before We were aware of an energy crisis and we certainly do have one everywhere in the world. Do we need to take a new look at the Green Revolution? And I'm going to suggest to you with that China is picking and choosing from the Green Revolution, but certainly not accepting all aspects of it. The one of the problems with the Green Revolution is that the conditions have to be Optimum in most cases to get the maximum response and you have many parts of the world with poor soils and shortage of the water and drought and many other problems that are not to under the control of a people and the in those cases the Science and Technology involved in the Green Revolution doesn't necessarily a result in large increases in food production. Now the idea in many ways was the transplant our own agriculture to export many of the things that we've developed in agriculture in this country to other parts of the world, but I would just have to say that Based on what the steinhart's and others are found in studying energy requirements around the world that have all of the other countries of the world farms and produce their food the same way that we do. The world would run out of fossil fuel in 28 years now. That's the kind of a thing that were facing when you take the Long View, which I submit we do not do very often that someone remarked that the world food conference in Rome the world can only afford one United States. And unfortunately, I think that's true. We are very consumptive of resources and particularly of the non-renewable resources of the world. Now it's true that we have a very efficient agriculture measured in economic terms. There are many ways of course of measuring economic measuring agricultural efficiency. In our own country, for example, we really look at it in terms of how much can be produced per hour of Labor in some of the countries in China is an example of this efficiency is looked at in terms of how much food can be produced per acre per year because are you have double-cropping triple cropping and various other combination? So you have to look at it on an annual basis, but they're interested in how much production that can get out of each acre of land hectare of land and notch in terms of Labor. And so there isn't the impetus to substitute energy fossil fuel energy particularly for labor in that kind of a situation. So the point is I think that we should not attempt to export to the developing countries of the world are on agriculture. They can't afford it and I'm not sure over the long pole whether we can afford the agriculture that we have although that's Rodger blough bum and agricultural consultant from Creston, Iowa speaking at a session. The Institute on food and fuel as well bomb said he feels and enduring agriculture cannot be energy-intensive although America produces more food than any country on Earth. It's a culture is energy intensive and might have that. I asked Obama what he sees as the future for American agriculture of fossil fuels and other non-renewable resources are anywhere near correct that the kind of Agriculture that we have. I will not endure it cannot endure agriculture really should be nothing more if it's going to endure over the long pole then a converter of the energy from the Sun. The only new thing that enters our Earth year after year is is heat and energy from the Sun. Everything else is the same and it's just recycled. Agriculture is really a very large solar cell. We need to find more ways to use that energy from the Sun and things like crop rotation and use of legumes and so far as to produce some of our own nitrogen and not use a natural gas or or or coal or any of the resources that we cannot replace. I don't think the time is going to come on. We're not going to have petroleum for for running tractors these people who keep saying. Well, what are you going to do? Go back to the to the horses in the plow? Well, that's a lot of nonsense about people who were trying to raise questions about agriculture production. You're not talking about horse farming. They're talkin about other practices that fit in very well with our present machinery and tractors and size farms and everything else. There's no reason why we can't rotate crops for example and take care of some of our requirements. There's no reason why we can't have more Diversified farms and use the manure in the road. And there's no reason why we can't do the kind of research that makes it unnecessary to use many of the chemicals that we now have come to rely on. There are a lot of changes in agriculture. And those changes have to be mad. If we are going to have the kind of Agriculture that indoors over the long pole. It must be renewable and it must endure you also mentioned that the type of food that endures is labor intensive agriculture Dulce us agriculture becoming more labor-intensive after this Great Migration away from the farm. Are we going to have more people staying in agriculture people actually going back into the land I believe to some extent. I think that we're going we're picking out in terms of replacing labor with fossil fuel energy. And other kinds of energy as well. I think we're probably about ready to Peak out in terms of of size of agricultural unit. I think the studies that show that the Unit can that can be handled by a family or buy one or two individuals study after study shows that this is the most efficient way to produce food and fiber. So why should we go to a larger unit? And why should we get away from the human factor that I think is so important in agriculture. I do look for as I mentioned before more Diversified agriculture again getting away from corn on corn or corn Bean rotations and get back to a more sound kind of Agriculture. I really feel that that's not necessarily going to be a choice on our part, but it's going to be a change that is forced Upon Us by circumstances most intensive. Energy consumers and agriculture is fertilizer and we pour a lot of fertilizer on the land. You've been involved recently in an Institute to find ways that Municipal sewage sludge can be used as a fertilizer. I wonder how that's coming. Do you see that is a viable substitute for petroleum based fertilizers, but I don't see it as a substitute, but I certainly see it as a very important supplement. As it is now as you know, most of the waste that are cumulated in the cities are run through sewage treatment plants of various kinds if there is a sludge is normally a halt to the landfill the great expanse. The air fluid is usually dumped into the closest the river or stream and we kind of wash your hands of the whole thing. With the rising prices of fertilizer and I think somewhere in this of the a long-term energy implications of some other things that are happening now, there's been quite a bit of interest in finding ways to utilize these waste a lot of questions have been raised and mostly raised by farmers and properly saw such as how about heavy metals. How about pathogens? Well, there's a great deal a very good research going on on this University of Minnesota for example has a team that is doing some of the best research in the country now, unfortunately USDA doesn't talk much about this research and a lot of people who came to this conference or Institute in Omaha. We're surprised at the number of answers that there are these questions. For example, the heavy metal thing has been well taken care of and it was answered to the satisfaction of the farmers who were in the audience in the same way with pathogens. So I feel that we're going to be moving quite quickly into land application municipal waste. Includes not on a sewage effluent sewage sludge, but I think also composted punch manure compost Stockyards manure compost leaves and eventually when we can get people into the idea of separating garbage from the other trash. We're going to start dealing with with garbage at self. This is a great resource and we treat it as a problem and read it's very expensive to for the taxpayers way. It's handled now, if you could take us step-by-step through what would happen in a municipal sewage system how would the sewage become the fertilizers and how would I get to the farmer's land? How would he apply it? Well, I guess one of the best ways would be to give you a couple of examples that I'm very familiar with one is in Beltsville, Maryland. There's an experiment there that too has been going on three or four years very successfully. There's a very large treatment plant then handles Washington DC and a very wide Metropolitan Area 1 6 Have the sewage sludge from that plant is regularly taking to Beltsville to a site and composted about all they have to do is add some wood chips to it and the wood chips really make it possible for the oxygen to get in there and they have the right kind of a composting action that you need so you don't have a smell buildup but the composting takes place fairly rapidly and then this substance is usually accepted because it sometimes gets lumpy or something like that and you can take it right out and play it on the way and it's almost like potting soil and it's very valuable the other thing and there's an experiment going on at Storm Lake Iowa sewage effluent. It is being used to irrigate and fertilize at the same time. Now, this has great possibilities for place is further west where where drop is a problem and where irrigation is is normal anyway, and as fertilizer prices increase in some of these other things occur, I think you're going to find local companies that are going to move in and make contracts with the cities and Metropolitan sewerage District and so forth and start Hang out a really saleable fertilizer materials and that will be a real good thing agricultural consultant Rodger bloebaum. One of the components designed to make this institute on food and fuel different from other discussions of the subject was the organized input of humanist into the process their input was to shed light on basically human problems appear as we Face questions about the supply of food and energy. It's appropriate that the final section of our program deal with those humanistic considerations. So we join a discussion of human assistance citizens as they consider the bearing that man's inherent nature will have on our ability to solve our problems of food and fuel. I just can't see the way we treat each other even with our own. Turning the thermostat down to 65 degrees when people Einstein. Who is indicated to me that we haven't really had a ready to come to grips with the problem of Being Human. We also have the capacity to visualize options. And we are haunted by our own dreams. And we are aware of out somehow. Not being able to realize those dreams dreams are an illusion and a matter of soft restoration or whether there's something else that prevents us from realizing our own dreams. I guess that's the debatable point, but we can visualize alternatives. I don't know I if somebody said are you an optimist or a pessimist about this? I don't know if I want to stick myself and eat a category that's simplistically because it seems to me that the history of the human race has always been an ambiguous mixture of things. We have at our disposal no more power than we've ever had before. And the power is neutral. And it is employed for creative and destructive uses. Are there are creative possibilities for transforming the Earth? And making it a place where life can be fostered. There is the possibility of limiting population. Are providing adequate food for that limited population list by maintenance by technological means? And yet these very same technological means. I'll put Power in the hands of a few. And many are exploited as a result of it. The studies have been made by the United Nations and other agencies seem to indicate that and you so maybe you ought to be able to the plight of people in say Peru and enjoy is worse off now than it was say 30 years ago on the whole. Do you say know what one of the basic problems of mankind is that we open a Pandora's Box and we give them expectations which we cannot satisfy. The man in Peru Colombia did not know about Rose about cars about factors about Central Heating and now there are a number of them that do have these things and others want to have it and because they want to have it and they have expectation. So that doesn't mean that they have become worse. There are certain things that have become. What is it many of them argue to the calamities of nature. We made it possible for them to have the longest. money to Arabic but then And they are starving because there's too much population of children don't die anymore as they used to and they don't have food to eat. I was wondering turn the thermostat down. That is sort of more pessimistic side comes through because I see certain creative possibilities, but I also heard that's a good neutral weren't working is we might want to use other words to Ave. But there's so much we have to be highly motivated to do that. So I thought that's where we know where does the motivation come from apart from some people who for one reason or their water world that's different than the one we have now more than the question who man is cuz that's the underlying one behind food and fuel, right? Cuz that's not just saying this but things is related to Percy of them. Why is it we go fishing man is not simply materialistic animal it does things for profit. You always take him so seriously productivity and all but that's not all we've been doing all our life here now. That gives me a little bit of hope that we are because of the choices within the next 30 Years say about 2,000 with the necessity of a civilization that will be in quantitative steady-state. Connotative steady-state means it's no longer a frontier here or materialistic acquisition. Does that make him pessimistic by no means to say he then says that gives us the possibility of a qualitative Frontier the possibilities of qualitative change so that we can shift from quantitative growth to qualitative growth and maybe once more you know have another Renaissance or renewal of the spirit of man, which will correct the excesses if this materialistic, you know, overemphasis that discussion of citizens in humanist from The Institute on food and fuel concludes this program. The Institute was organized by Morehead State University and Dr. Anushka, it was sponsored by the Minnesota Humanities commission the Moorhead Area Chamber of Commerce and the tri College Center for Environmental Studies. Funds for this program were provided by grants from the Minnesota Humanities commission and Steiger tractor Incorporated of Fargo, North Dakota.