Thor Heyerdahl, Norwegian explorer and anthropologist who sailed across the Pacific on the balsa wood raft Kon-Tiki, speaking at Concordia College.
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I am not a sailor. I'm not a semen. Although I know the ocean. I gradually come to learn what the other person is, but I still today cannot say a normal sailboat in Dallas Love Field. So you may wonder how can a man who is not the sale? They're start drifting about them the Atlantic and the Pacific with different types of routes. And I will roughly outline what has happened to me Hawaii ended sitting on these raps in the two oceans surrounding the new word. I will train the first as a biologist at the University of Oslo and as a young student in 1937, I left on my first little expedition to the Marquesas islands in the Pacific carefully selected a small island called Potter. Hiva and I was a double purpose to my little Expedition one was that together with my professors at the Oslo University. We were interested in one basic problem when it comes to the phone on these islands for Toshiba. Like the other islands in the Marquesas group had been born from the Bottom of the Sea by volcanic eruption. What are the words when it came out of the water? That was no life on the island today. Of course, it has a very fertile tropical vegetation and quite a phone. Hello Affinity one and the question was how have these animals come there in the beginning? This was the official part or my Voyage the one I told my parents and my professors then I had that secret mission that I not told anybody really until quite recently when I published a book on this experience that just came out last month in the United States code for Toshiba Back To Nature. And the second purpose will set as a young student in Norway just before the second World War. I started to feel that a war was coming and I started to feel that mother and civilization was on the wrong track. I was deeply interested in Polynesian culture the Primitive cultures of the Pacific Islands, which I have studded more. I would say then zoology. That was my main subject at the University. And what I wanted to do was to try to turn Back To Nature to live like early man. And I selected very careful in a young the Wixom bride who wanted to come with me on this experiment and we decided that we would try to do it all the way but is to leave the benefits of civilization together with what we consider the emails. So we brought with us no matches no medicine. And We Came As far as to Tahiti Master far as we could get by civilized means and that. Where we had to stay with old Chief to the arrow a great man. That brought me up in Polynesian customs and readily adopted me as his 9029 some and from him. I learned what I had to know before a trading Schooner took us up to 3 weeks from Tahiti to this little island off at the river where the Schooner a Lifeboat into the sea and the roads are sure left us with our two suitcases where we had our wedding dress, etcetera all the things we didn't need on the tropical island and the Schooner left and said we're coming back after a year to see what things are like No, this year was for me the beginning of the understanding of the ocean and over the Polynesian people on the contact with the outside word. People were living very much like in ancient time and with the exception of a big Iron knife that we found we could not do without we had none of the real benefits of civilization. We picked our food from the general quote the problems in the river. We went out fishing and canoe and this is When I discovered that in this part of the world, the wind is coming from one side of the island the whole year around they are not the ocean current has One Direction is like living in the middle of a big river. And I came to the I am convinced that science was correct in assuming that these people the Stone Age people of Polynesia had paddle against wind and current in canoes 10000 km to reach desired and spit after having lived there for months then one year and then I felt that this cannot be song. They must have had the benefit the winds and currents like all these animals. The climate was different from one side of the island to the other because of the month has no and then the current And I started to suspect that maybe. America rather than Asia had sent the first settlers to Polynesia After All American Self had been people Mine by migrants that came across from Siberia to Alaska. So it was a question. Thesaurus would still be the same that it would only be a different one. the island having basic training in by and by all the day I discovered that some of the culture plants used by the natives and used before Europeans came or typical culture plants of American origin. It's a prices to mention things like the sweet potato, which is American plan and still was cultivated by the people on this island has to staple food before you're a champion came with the same name as he was playing the Indians in South America kumara. Also, the wild cotton was the 26th chromosome carton of American Indians brought forth in Mexico and Peru by artificial breeding by American Indians other plants were the Tomato the pineapple the papaya And the buffalo gourd just to mention a few of those that could not have come the other way and we're present on the island. So coming back to YouTube again after 1 year. I switched And Timely from the question of the of the migrations of animals to the question. Ho ho had man. Come over and after a year. In Norway, I went to British Columbia. And I spent another year with the Coast Indians because I felt that they had come out of Asia and this could be the stepping-stone of the SEI takes into Polynesia the calls from British Columbia. You have a current and the wind coming from the Philippines seeing going to pull in Asia. And I left British Columbia convinced that this was the Stepping Stone from Asia, but I still was left with the feeling that there is something older and Below out of South America. Just before the war but I'll go. I can home in time to participate in Italo. I tried to head tried to escape it but just before the war but I'll go. I tried to publish my thesis, but I was met by scientists all over the world that said that you can discount the South American Indians as a possible source of Supply to Polynesia because they had no ships. We knew from the early Spanish chroniclers that the South American Indians had only Balsa raft or bolts are word log / together with Rob and Reed boats built of Totoro Reed. And according to signs. None of these vessels could survive an ocean Voyage because they were absorbed water and sink off. The two weeks notice has been published in the scientific literature and quote it and recorded until it had been accepted as an axiom and there was nothing to do. Interrupted by the war where I served as a parachute office in myself in the Arctic when peace came and I tried to go back to my theory. I met the same obstacles and I had the choice of either proving that the bolts or else we'll see where they and that it was possible to go or to abandon my theory altogether know I'd never see in Bolsa with myself. So it was a bit discouraging to hear people that where bolts are with exporter saying that it did that absorb water and sink after 2 weeks. But indirectly I concluded that we know I had what I considered biological proof that man had travel across and broth culture plants and incidentally the Peruvian dog and certain other ailments and if he have no other vessel, well, then they will have to be seaworthy and whatever I looked in the literature, I never encountered any scientist would ever seen the bolts around so how could they know and why would the ink and Priyanka keep on for hundreds and hundreds of years old building bolts bolts it would if it sinks after 2 weeks. So this is why I took the chance and I built the boat according to the description all the scientists and we set it at Sea and fortunately by doing like the Indians that is by going into the jungle and cutting the timber ourselves with sap inside. We discovered that the sap acted as impregnation. It didn't absorb water more than the older layers and it floated 401 days to close 4300 miles across the Pacific through the two or more driving. So I started at call. Yo in Peru. Upper contiki the real fight started because this really got the opposition going they admitted that they had been wrong when it came to a bowl so that the bullets are oft will see where he and that it was your ethically possible for the Indians to get the clothes. But they said we have proof that they did not leave the coast. Although they're both with float because in between South America and the Polynesian Islands what you'll know the Galapagos Islands and the Galapagos Islands nearest South America was uninhabited. when the Europeans first came if they're travels from South America, why wouldn't there be people American Indians living on the Galapagos Islands? So I was getting a bit skeptical and any book. I opened on the Galapagos started by saying that nobody had ever been there before Bishop that alarm. Came + 50 + 19. But I never found anybody that they looking for in the trenches sweater or no people have been there. And I found that not one single archaeologist in the world that ever said his foot that showing the Galapagos and it is useless to be a botanist or a zoologist and go to the Galapagos to really know whether or not man. I've been there before you have to be an archaeologist. So off the kon-tiki I organized will be called the Norwegian archaeological expedition to the Galapagos and I brought with me one top archaeologist from the United States or the head of the Department of the u.s. National park service's and then one very competent archaeologist from Norway and the way the local Galapagos crew. We started the first archaeological excavations and we found for three European archaeological sites on the Galapagos with boat shirts from more than 130 ceramic vessels that could be identified. Esprit Inca made by the Indians on the coast of South America and we found an Indian spinning world and an Inca flute and a number of older archaeological objects more than 2,000 all together. So at this time it was established that they both had been used at least as far as to the Galapagos and that is 600 miles in 2001. CR 600 miles of you are in the ocean and you have the wind and current with you know, this encouraged my next Expedition, which was to Easter Island. There had been to archeological Expeditions before many other Expeditions, of course, but don't let to archaeological one British franco-belgian. But since there is no Forest on the island. And since it is the island closest to South America and farthest from Asia, they had not bothered to dig because I said this must be the island last inhabited with no past that can be no units because there is no Forest so they had stated what was on the surface and never tried today? Since I have come to the opposite conclusion that it since it was the one there is South America. It should be the one with the longest occupation and they might be many reasons for the absence of poorest. I've seen that on one of y'all ain't seen them Arkansas which had been turned from a general Island into the desert because of overgrazing of another population of European introduce tree. So I organized The Innovation archaeological expedition to Easter Island. And then I had this time with me for American University professors in archaeology 108mm to South American beside a team of 27 men and we used 200 local Islanders and kept on digging on the island for 6 months and we did fine indeed. There was a lot of archaeology first we discovered was that these so-called famous is Stone heads of Easter Island where North heads at all? Your best was more underground than above when we started digging. They had that bodies and arms and work ethic off at the hips. And the next wave phone was that they were tree archaeological periods superimposed on Easter Island and let the earliest one was the one corresponding to the pre Inca culture in South America. And we got the carbon dating bringing the history of Israel more than 1,000 year further back than what will set soon previously. After these researchers in the Pacific Workshop in continuance Ends by some of the archaeologists and went with me. It was accepted in 1961 at the Pacific Science Congress in Honolulu where 3,000 scientists from all over the world. Where assembled old experts in the Pacific that South America together with southeast Asia where the two main source areas of the Pacific people and Pacific cultures. But this time I was getting absorbed into the second time type of South American dream with your boat via read the boat built from Totoro Reed from Lake Titicaca have been cultivated on the Pacific coast in the desert coast of Peru and have been brought by primitive man cross the Pacific to be planted in the freshwater lakes of the craters on Easter Island where they built exactly the same types of red bolts as in Peru. With a Peruvian material type of boat again was identical to the one used in ancient Egypt and ancient Mesopotamia. And I started to believe could it be that this boat will see where they do all those signs that said it certainly would be impossible for that read both to be used on the ocean. So I started testing Reed Boats Lake Titicaca and South America on Easter Island. I went into Africa the places where they still in use in central Africa and Ethiopia and whatever I went the more interested. I became in the papaya spot and the distribution is had in prehistoric time. It was used by all the earliest civilization in the old word Mesopotamia Southern turkey Egypt Cypress Street Malta right out to the Pacific and the Atlantic side or Morocco. Then it pops up again in the same shape in Mexico gone through Central America and all three speed Island. the game iPhone that according to science Papyrus both could not be used at seat and the Papyrus Institute in Cairo had tested Papyrus and found that it would the salt in seawater and that it wouldn't float in any water for more than 2 weeks. know by this time I was really getting skeptical because I have seen that. Even though a piece of balsa wood would think if it is dry eyeballs are oft will float kept kon-tiki kept on clothing for 1 year, and they also filled before we go to the Intel Museum. And I figured out that to judge a Papyrus boat from a piece of Papyrus Reed. It's not the right thing to do. If you can take it bit them iron and drop it into a swimming pool and we'll go right to the bottom and still Queen. Mary can cross the Atlantic. It's a big difference between the material and the bolt itself. So I decided to build a Papyrus boat and I did but they're fine Builders today. It's very difficult. I had to bring buduma treisman from central Africa and they were not used to the never seen the ocean didn't even know. It was salty sow the boat. They built was not that strong as an ocean both ought to be So am I coming most of the distance across the Atlantic where one week short of the Barbados when the ropes bested and the Papyrus Reeds which were still floating started drifting in different directions and there are less and less of them around us for quite some time. We kept it going by swimming underneath with ropes and swimming underneath. We could tie ourselves together each time one Rob bested we swam and they need some Tylenol. They're not with another rope. But when we came close enough to the Barbados, we came into the area where we had a welcome committee by sharks and that one time we have thirty-two of them around us and one of my men was just about caught by a shark so I had to stop repairing but I want as we call the first one. and this meant that we had to abandon the experiment. I will say that all my man. I had seven men from Seven Nations. Will my man wanted to continue said that at least as long as we have one bank accounts, but I asked the leader knowingly Pamela's I have the responsibility and I didn't feel that a scientific experiment will sorority risking you in my life as a hard woman for me to decide to interrupt the experiment. But I got a new love the Papyrus from the source of the Nile and the Ethiopian mountains and this time I brought the American Indians to build the vessel from Lake Titicaca in South America. We flew them out though, the lake to Morocco in Africa. The only trouble I had with the most that they believe that the Atlantic Ocean was still Lake Titicaca so weak and they wanted to go home to their wives and I can make them understand that this wasn't difficult Enterprise route to Lake Titicaca in South America is the only place in the world. Today. We're worried about is still built exactly as the ancient Egyptians did it as we know from mobiles in Cairo Museum and mural paintings and reliefs in Egypt and the other two came all the way across to Barbados and showed that it is possible for the earliest type of vessel known to civilized man in the Mediterranean. to come across and bring cultural impulses to the American Indian. What's we know it so that she had to go to gym and which we know came to this continent by fifth as a very primitive man with no civilization at all. The big question which still exists ants that all alone with the route to avoid I had proven that such a voyage is possible. It is still left to find out whether this actually happened science is still divided into groups. Those that believe that Civilization. Started independently in Mexico and Peru and those that believe that somebody came across like we did into the Gulf of Mexico where we know civilization started will know that the Olmec civilization. On the Tropical Coast of Mexico is the earliest next continent the diffusionist believe that this inspiration came from the old world the isolationist believe it is independent wealth. I am busy at know is to find out if there is enough evidence to argue that something really came across long before not only Columbus that even long before the Norsemen from Greenland. I think that maybe we shall start with the question snow and go as far as we as as time will permit. I would read the questions and Dr. Heyerdahl align answer them. What was your biggest fear on your kind take a trip? We don't question. The biggest fear was the landing as long as we were in the middle of the ocean. The Bulls draft was floating like a deck on top of the water. But when we came to the windward side of the 12 models, which is famous for the biggest surf anywhere in the world. We really had a hard time when we have an uninhabited island with beautiful Farms ahead of us and we're throwing against the reef and throwing up again 12 times until with the waves breaking high above the most and play finally works on all the way up on land. And why did assure on an uninhabited Island where we stayed for a weekend Blue River phone by natives from the other side of the Big Lagoon. What kind of food did you eat besides fish and Seafood? On the contiki, we made two different tests one was part of the expedition that lived only on the seafood and the Plankton and the the algae growing on the Loft mclambs the the Barnacles growing on the top and the other party was living on some special a life rescue food, which we tested for the United States war department the Expedition. We met a completely different experiment we brought with us just the kind of food that ancient people had on board their vessels Branson's we had 64 ceramic jars made according to the mobiles in the Cairo museum with water and with the all the food we had were in jars or in baskets or in the in the goatskin sex, and we were We had special like baked Egyptian bread like still you're still fine in the tombs and they have in the title museum with Berber better and jars sold in Boyd. We had all sorts of dried nuts figs dates and we had under a lime water and we had special Expedition food still used by the berbers and Madoka when they go into the desert. And all we ate was with ancient man had and we still lived in an excellent way. Would you try your Kentucky trip again? If I had time and needed the rest, I would be delighted to go because with the experience we have today it would be a vacation. I I can add the incidentally that the main trick is to build a vessel exactly like ancient people. It's necessary to use balsa wood as we did and it is necessary to lash it together with the row if you use y or something it would cut the wood off in the waves but to prove my point I can mention that since County K-12 odor Bolsa Ralph's have started exactly where we started and they have oh, close to Polynesian and some of them drifted through Polynesia melanesia and four of them through Millennia. See all the way to Australia. So the bullets away draft is an excellent vest on that is really been being shown. What happened to the first draw that is what was wrong that was corrected in route to? What was wrong with it. It was a problem with the Rope. It was particular won the road going from the top of the mast. To the stern and another one going from the stern it don't to dance like the string on a bow. And nobody knew what this was for and the people from Chad admit it because they said we all thought it was just for the beauty of holding the stern of it in an inward curve like the age of ancient Egyptian ships and all the scientists agree that this was just for ornamental purposes. And the Chad people said leave it though The Causeway built the boat. So the stern-wheel then then we wrote it up. So we left it out and I'll let you late. Then there were some different learn that this was the whole trick of the light is both because it get its it acts as a spring. The boat is flexible and she'll move in the waves and this string coming down from the high in carbo will pull the rear 1/3 of the vessel. Opal each time. It goes down without Latrobe the stern of route to gradually been thrown in the water and invited all the waves to come on board and batten against the bamboo cabin and the Bender cabin went back and forth day and night until it's out of the ropes. And that was the Doom of another one. We saved and much of it but the amazing thing which goes to show what the ocean is. Like is that some of the spiders from Robin drifted ashore in the Gulf of Mexico, but the amazing thing is that at three different parts of the West Coast of Norway Papyrus is not snow coming in from Robin the ghostly Gulfstream starts where we ended goes up past the United States go across the north of Scotland and warms up the whole coast of a Norway and there is no Papyrus growing anywhere near the Atlantic we have to go up into the mountains of Ethiopia to find it. So it's very vitamin Papyrus is drifting in the ocean. It's it's part of it all album. So we got fisherman hat sending Papyrus pieces that have drifted ashore which we know in the kon-tiki music. But the course will save completely and is ready to go into a new Wing in the kon-tiki museum now. Please comment on the pollution of our oceans. The pollution of the ocean. Me Ariel surprise on the radio shock because I'm continuing 1947 whistling clean water all the time. We had to plant them net behind and we never saw any sign of remains of human activity. So I told my men when we started on the route to that you're going to have a wonderful experience to see this clean water out in the ocean and wave it on pollution that started and it was so bad that I sent the message to the United Nations during one and a Secretary General will so interesting so shocked at what we had seen that we were out when we started with Rob to we were asked to do a day-by-day observation and we did and although the drift from Morocco in Africa to Barbados in Middle America to 57 days 43 out of the 57 days. We collected solid lumps of asphalt solid Club Savoy in the ocean and the other days we saw an island bugs bags at Plastics empty bottles. So the ocean is really changing and changing rapidly and this is a very serious problem for mankind not So Much book for is it aesthetic reasons? Because it is every of course, they were the ocean and dirty beaches, but the trouble is the pollution that we do not see. And which all of us participate in because the only place we saw came from the washing of oil tankers, but the pollution we do not see comes from the common house from the urban areas. That is the synthetics that we have today movie detergents and from the agricultural Fields all insect inside. These are material that are near the last couple of decades and that does not convert. It's not like the pollution of nature like sale third routing plants and animals, but it is something that goes into the ocean accumulates and can never be transformed recycled by bacteria or by the Plankton and this is a great thing for North because it will kill the fish. That's bad enough. We need more fish to feed all the hungry mouths in the world today. We need more protein, but the calls These are toxic matters. Most of them will float near the surface and that's where the Plankton is concentrated and the Plankton V plant on the plant plantain is the main producer of oxygen life was not possible on this planet until the plant Plankton had sent oxygen up above the surface to create the atmosphere. We have it today that made it possible for animals and human beings with lungs to Lalor sure if we take away that we are in trouble. What are we are living in the Inland or on the coast? Please comment on the Viking discovery of this continent. We have today double evidence of the fact that the Vikings came here about year thousand will know the early Saga version. I don't know how many of us are familiar with the fact that the Leif Erikson, excuse me will send by the Olaf haraldsson shortly before he died and he died in your thousand. He will send that to bring Christianity to bring them the same year as Iceland have officially accepted Christianity by Bi-Lo and Leif Ericson was 10th by King Cole Love with a Catholic priest on board. And we did religious teachers to bring Christianity to the little colon. Is that his father Eric the Red Hood chest founded on Greenland. You never succeeded to convert his father that his mother became immediately a very keen devoted Christian and built the first church on the Greenland about years thousand and between yourself and 1517 churches were built on the west coast of Greenland 17 churches where there before Columbus started his wife and two monasteries one for nuns. And one for months and two Bishops where permanently is she did on the west coast of Greenland. We don't live the Davis Strait separating them from the American continent since the 1212 to 1300 and the church on Greenland through the Archbishop in Norway had Direct contact with the Vatican. And the correspondence is still resting between various Pope's about the Norse colony in Greenland will know that Columbus had intimate contact with the Vatican. And the lost letter from any Pope concerning the north settlement on Greenland walls in 1492 the same year as Columbus started his first voyage when British Pirates had raided and destroyed the Norwegian Colony up there and the pope was complaining to the two Bishops on Iceland about the destruction. So I'm in the. Between Leif Erikson to visit and the extermination about 1,500 of the nurse called in the in Greenland that will edit the trade. After the Pain lyrics of settling because of the Indians or skraelings as the endorsement call them that throw away the first attempt settlers on this side, but the Greenland Colony continued to go across the Bering Straits and we can tell this from the cargo which they brought from Greenland to Norway which including animals that do not live on Greenland. What's your North American animals like black bear and beaver and Sable? During the Crusades the north Conan Greenland bringing these animals from North America were obliged to sell them to the church in Bergen the clothes the pope insisted that they on Greenland being good Christians should also pay Crusaders text. And of course the Norwegian kings themselves were Crusaders at the time. They went from Norway to the black see through that Arch and rivers to visit the Holy Land others went through Gibraltar and there was an intimate contact the time of Columbus between the Norwegian kings and the Vatican one side and Columbus in the Vatican on the other side. So there is no question to the fact that Columbus was aware of the fact that there was a Christian colony. On Greenland and that this to some extent must have influenced his calculation of a hole to find at the right place and the right they account the low he was planning to reach India, which was five times as far away. So certainly the Norse arrival on this continent is an historic fact what's know a few years ago in the 60s was proven archaeologically for the first time to the satisfaction of everybody some of the songs and not being accepted by our archaeologists. But the archaeological site at Lansdowne Meadows on the northeast coast of Newfoundland has been generally accepted and there is not one serious scientists that were adopted Viking artifacts were found and it was carbon date did more than 10 Carmen dates showing that this took place around years thousand. So there is it would be meaningless to adult that the Norseman in that. Came to this continent. Where did Norwegians originate? That's a very difficult question. That's one thing. We're just quite remarkable is the fact that according to snow today. They came from the Black Sea. He gives a very exact detail and give so the whole list of Kinks the ancestors of M King High doll the fair-haired or just the first king to assemble, Norway. In about 30 Generations back. He starts with a Viking king that will supposed to live on the other side of the river don't and the names are given all details are given and it is said and snorri that's when the Romans expanded and conquered territories and all that area. He decided to move to Northern areas. And one thing is a fact that if they live there they would have no difficulty getting up the Great Depression rivers over to the Baltic Sea and overcome the Navy on what and how is your best and most accurate method you find for navigating across the ocean? The most accurate method for an ancient man is so Corsa to navigate by the stars and I can give us an example that I had my professional navigator and board Norman Baker from the United States. He used a Sextant Encompass and modern methods so that we could Flop Day by Day the real position for scientific purposes on a map to know exactly what we did on the other hand. I myself had make made with a cold and not so no matter what that I picked on my nose. And one was held in such a way that when I held it right below my eyes. I would point to the Horizon and the other at night I would bend up and I saw the Polar Star at the end of it and believe it or not the possibility once you know, the end of The Polar start, you know your latitude if you know it exactly, you know, your exact latitude know the whole trip. I was never never more than one or one and a half degree off Dakota latitude. The longitude of course is much more difficult. So I reached America one week before and the Navigator. If you were to really relive your father he by experience would you do anything differently? If there should be any point in the experimental turning back to Nature, I would have to do it all over again as we did it what we did or course will still leave. I know the benefits of civilization to hold what we considered evos and they showed us that modern man cannot survive in the tropics today without any kind of medicine mosquitoes and the mosquitoes would spread elephantiasis and we have the germs spreading tropicale sir. And if I went there today, I certainly would bring some kind of medicine but then the point of turning back to nature would have been abandoned even before departure. Is Atlantis a myth or reality? 95% of the scientists would say it is a myth. Let those put it this way that there are legends of a sunken continent in the Atlantic and there is another one in the Pacific in the Pacific to so cold so I can come out or move in the Pacific. We know definitely there was never a sunken continent in human time. This can be told from the bottom sediment of plankton. The Pacific Ocean the apart from Indonesia has it been the same has had the same shape throat human time as it has today. There is never been in the Atlantic. We have no. Scientific evidence at all of any sunken Atlantis, but we do have scientific evidence of the fact that there has been land in the Mid-Atlantic Atlantic Ridge. The best argument for this is the fact that button boring show that there have been deposits of freshwater plant them in the lake on the stairwell slammed around it. But so far there is no evidence that this took place in human time there has been land but it might have sank long before the time. Oh, man. I would say that the question is still open that the bulk of scientists do not believe in it and Enbrel scientists have recently supported the theory that the explosion of the island of fira near Crete about 16 1800. BC could have given rise to the legend of the Atlantis personally. I would say that either we have to accept the meats for what it is and it says very expressly that it was outside Gibraltar. That's just about the only detail there is in the myth if we start to put it inside we might as well give it up because then there's nothing left over me. Is the close confinement on isolation for a long. Of time while I was sailing the problem for you? If so, how do you deal with it? There's no question that if you hit a group of men together for months on a small raft and you cannot turn over in any direction without seeing the same men day and night. This is a major problem. And that this is also a problem that I anticipated and even before I come taking for days on end. I told my men that this would be worse than any hurricane we could get the cross and we all agreed that if somebody said something that would hurt and other one the other one should just shut his mouth and keep quiet until the first one realize that he had done a blender and this system worked out and I can say that to my great pleasure about 2. We were eight men from eight Nations and I done this intentionally to show that man can collaborate independently of race political background and religion. And it worked out as well. If not, even better than on contiki where we were all Scandinavians. I had my navigator was from the United States and medical officer was from the Soviet Union. I had the the blackest man you could possibly pick from Lake Chad and central Africa. I had a Berber from my DACA. I have that Japanese and Mexican and an Italian and Egyptian and added from Egypt the American was have gear and then I myself was no reason and it worked. Why do you live in Italy instead of Norway? And are you still a Norwegian citizen? Yes, I'm still a Norwegian citizen. I'm living in Italy. A partly because of the place I phone it will say I had a great strike of luck. I found that tiny little medieval village perched on top of the peninsula Terranea with a big wool 12/5 foot tall light on the property. And when I was living in Oslo and try to work when you have relatives I have no relatives in Orwell's up. And friends, they will ring the doorbell and the telephone all the time and say I'm not going to disturb you just going to say hello and don't you come to this cocktail party and so on I couldn't work. So I will decided I have to hide a way to find a place to work and I did find this place which is unique the little village which was almost completely abandoned Wells from the 12th century. And then when I bought the area, I got most of the village and beautiful land around it from the window so we can see Corsica large part of mid raining in One Direction and the other way see the snow in the Alps and we have oranges and everything and we have the same floor as we have in Norway and one side and Tropical Palms Villas, and then it takes me one hour and a half to go from the nearest airport to Copenhagen another half hour to go back to Oslo. So I I'm still a member of the Norwegian Academy of Sciences and he'll like commute and I can do much more work and it is a beautiful part of the world and the north Italians are wonderful people. I am very fond of them and I'm very happy to be there, but I'm still definitely. And the final question for this evening. Have you planned your next adventure? What I've been interested in is the possibility of contact with the New World before European history, and then there are only two oceans surrounding the new where the Atlantic and the Pacific. And then I have seen that it is possible to kill us both of them with primitive vessel. And the only two types of boats that have been in dispute by scientists are actually the red book The Papyrus boat. They said we'd both and the Balsa raft. We do know that the Phoenicians wouldn't shift on a Viking ship can do the strip. And as I said before I am not the Sailor I know there is one among you here today planning to build a Viking ship and I warned him that if he is not the same himself. He must have sailed. There's within the clothes to sale a Viking ship. You must be a sailor. Just had a rough. It's enough to be a Drifter.