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SPEAKER: One thing with our tribe, they're blonde and blue-eyed, so they can pass for white really easy. So they have a hard time visibly convincing anyone else that they're even Indian, and that is a problem.

The visibility, when you're visibly different, then you're readily accepted as being different by white people. But if you look like an Anglo, then it's a hard thing for the Indian person to deal with around here. That's one big difference with our tribe is that we've got a lot of blonde, blue-eyed Indians that are having a hard time.

RADIO HOST: The Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation, Our Home Town, one in a series of programs exploring the values and character of life in small communities. Produced by Minnesota Public Radio station, KCCM, with funds provided by the North Dakota Committee for the Humanities and Public Issues.

The blue-eyed, blonde Indians represent the mixed background of many of the residents of the reservation. And on today's program, you'll hear about problems of assimilation into white culture from Gerald Monette, director of the community college, and Connie Grant, director of the counseling center, discuss the conflict with the white culture and revival of the Indian culture. The interviewer is John Ydstie.

SPEAKER: You know, years back, well, if you were from the reservation, you weren't looked upon too well for a job. And a lot of these people were mixed-bloods. A lot of them could pass as French. I know one person said they were Italian, for instance.

And I think for that reason, a lot of them did that. They wouldn't say they were from here, or there, they were from Rolla, they wouldn't say from Belcourt, and little things like that. But you don't find that too much today, but there's still some.

SPEAKER: I think a lot of the changes came about when the government swung and made so many opportunities available for the Indian people. And then people started to claim their Indian heritage. And I predict that when it's no longer the thing to be an Indian that we're going to lose these people again into the mainstream of society, and, again, they will be non-Indian. They are in, because it pays to be in right now.

JOHN YDSTIE: Has the American Indian Movement played any part?

SPEAKER: I think they've played a big part. And I feel like many other organizations, when AIM got started, it started for a very worthwhile purpose. I think they've served a lot of good purposes. And I think that they've lost sight of some of their objectives also. But they did play a part in people not being ashamed of being Indian, I think.

SPEAKER: There's a three-man school board, and they are constantly trying to discourage, and they are successfully discouraging any cultural activities in the school. Like Lynn mentioned, some have been slipped in.

An example of what they're doing, just recently, at the last school board meeting, at the end of July, they had a professional non-Indian consultant come in from some eastern school and give a very impressive presentation on a research project she did on the reservation regarding the native language here.

And her conclusion was that the native language should not be taught in the school, because it isn't educationally sound. Now, at the same time as she was giving her presentation to the school board, we were taking a survey of the reservation to find out if the people actually did want the language taught in the school.

And we had some very prominent people fill out this survey. In fact, all of the leaders of the reservation filled out the survey. And out of that survey-- I think we took-- there was 150 completed-- out of that survey, only three said they did not want the language taught in the school. All the other ones said that they preferred the language be taught in the school.

The school board, upon hearing the results of this eastern lady, fired the Michif instructor at the school. Because he said, oh, there's no need for her, and it's bad for our school. So this is an example of the type of things that this age group is trying to do to the reservation.

And what's going to happen if they continue to move in that direction, about 10 years from now or 20 years from now, we won't have a reservation. We'll have a poverty area, with a lot of poor people, with no identity at all. It'll be similar to the Appalachia, down south, just a poverty area.

Right now, we have a reservation. There are Indian people who are proud to be Indian people. But there are these few people in that age group who are working towards termination. And they aren't speaking for the entire reservation.

JOHN YDSTIE: Lynn, you mentioned before something about you were taught to be afraid of the full-bloods in the hills. What separated the full-bloods from the rest of the society?

SPEAKER: It was this influence from the other society. And that brought in a little more competitiveness, a little less clinging to nature, a little lighter skin color, a little more on the Michif part realizing that, maybe, they can fool themselves, and fool the full-bloods, and fool the white people, and try to be white.

And it didn't work. And it isn't going to work, because our people can still go off the reservation and be called by white people, unintelligent white people in a way-- the intelligent ones don't call people names-- but call our people dirty Indians, or crooks, cheats, sneaks, and liars, all that stuff.

And I think that's what separated the Michif, the mixed-blood, from the full-blood. And for a long time, many of them thought they could be white. And one way of doing this was to knock down the full-blood.

In the 1880s and 1890s, our chief, Chief Little Shell, had a council, his headmen. And on this council were many Michif people, as they'd be called today, many people of mixed-blood. And then there were also full-bloods on the council. So back in the 1880s and 1890s, there wasn't this separation, as you're indicating here.

We've benefited from federal money, there's no doubt about it. We have better homes-- some of the people have better homes, and better paychecks, better schooling, but it leads to a white way of living. That's what it leads to. It's all better homes, running water, and all that stuff. It's geared towards a white way of living. And that, maybe, is what I was talking about, when it brought away from the Indian way of living.

Now, these things-- we want the best for our people, and our people want the best for themselves. I don't think better homes are a white value, because I think it could be an Indian value. Or better schools aren't a white value, it could be an Indian value. Or better paychecks doesn't have to be geared towards white value, the money could be used the Indian way.

I know one way the federal government could help today, and that is to provide monies for teacher training, counselors, administrators, social workers, doctors, nurses. These jobs, these positions are available on this reservation today. Take a look at our community school, we have about 200 teachers up there and about 190 of them are white. That could be 190 Indian people employed in those positions.

That's just one school. We have the Ojibwe Indian School, the Dunseith school-- two schools in Dunseith-- Saint John, Rolla, Rolette. Altogether, there might be 500, 600 jobs there that our people could hold if they got their teaching degree. So the federal government could pour money into this reservation to fund our people to go to school for teachers, and counselors, and administrators, and doctors.

And what they do instead, though, they give that money to institutions of higher education, like the University of North Dakota, or North Dakota State University. And then they recruit people to come to their institution. And then they get an overhead. And they get FTEs paid for. They get full-time teachers paid for. They get administrators paid for, secretaries paid for, supplies paid for.

They get all this money that is designated for Indian people, supposedly, to get an education, but by the time it gets to an individual student, there's nothing left. I think if the federal government would put that money with the tribe, we could use that entire bundle to send people to school, and we could train hundreds of more teachers.

JOHN YDSTIE: Can you remember what it was like to go to boarding school?

SPEAKER: In those days, we learned all right, but they held us back. I remember quite a few of my schoolmates got disgusted, and they quit school. Well, I can remember some great big boys and great big girls would pass the eighth grade when they were about 18 or 20 years old. They held them back without reason.

Well, these boys from Turtle Mountains, they got disgusted and didn't want to go back, at that time. It was a rough life. They used to have a white fence around the school-- a white fence, they call it-- and if we were caught talking our language, we were punished.

JOHN YDSTIE: How did you react and deal with that feeling of inferiority that was projected by the white community, that you felt?

SPEAKER: Probably, the most contributing factor, I think, was establishing self-worth, being able to say, well, I believe that I'm just as good as anybody else. And I think part of this was, probably, reevaluating what white cultures were versus what Indian cultures were, and ideals.

And I think the comparison of ideals is really tremendous. And I think Indian ideals were far superior to what the normal white was attuned to. You know, it wasn't acquiring a lot of material things. It was more a spiritual, and a physical, and an emotional growth.

Very probably, the majority of people on this particular reservation did adapt to the white man's ideals of material possessions, and washing, being clean, and whatever. You know, they bought it and said, well, this is what you gotta be in order to be a person. You gotta be a white person in order to be anybody.

But I think this coming generation is where we receive the conflict, is that, OK, if you weren't this, then you weren't nothing. Many people want to be proud to be Indian, yet, I want to be a rich Indian, or I want to be a powerful Indian, or I want to be an important Indian. It relates to competing again with the white culture.

I want to have an Indian basketball team that can beat the white team, which I'm not saying is wrong, or I'm not saying it's good or it's bad. I personally don't feel that this was one of the Indian ways of life. I think the Indian was the greatest cooperator in his tribe. People cooperated.

Maybe, I imagine, there must have been little competitive things that went on, but in the main, the engine was cooperative. You shared and it was more like a family setting. People were, what's yours is mine, and what's mine is yours. There was many, many things about Indian culture that were beautiful. They didn't have any deeds.

The fact that-- there was no profit, another fact, very beautiful. We made an even trade. I didn't try to get a profit. You know, profit is getting something for nothing, really. You know, I didn't try to get your sheep for nothing, I gave you something in return.

And the fact of owning land, it belonged to-- who did it belong to? It belonged to God. The land belonged to God. And He let us use it. And another thing, the animals were not inferior. They weren't inferior beings. They were brothers. They were sisters. And they were here to be used.

JOHN YDSTIE: Can the present culture of the Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation be called an Indian culture, then?

SPEAKER: I couldn't determine it as Indian culture, really. I think the majority of people live in white-oriented homes, and their ideas are for material value, plus some spiritual value, I'm sure. But it's new cars, and a good job, and nice kids, dressed up neat, and go to school, and marry good, and bring me no problems, and get an education. An education in what? In being able to compete?

SPEAKER: Well, I think that sharing was true years ago. Like, I remember when I was a kid, people shared what they had. I guess this is true in all cultures. But I don't think this is-- the way it's going now, it seems to be changing, you know, everybody for themselves.

SPEAKER: You know, like my mother said that when we were all little, it was nothing for someone to bring over-- say, maybe, they got some wild meat-- to bring over half of what they had gotten. And she said, this day and age, that no one had even offered even a piece of their wild meat.

JOHN YDSTIE: Do you think it's because people have more?

SPEAKER: You know, it's kind of ironic, but in the old days, when people didn't have barely enough to live on, then they would share what they had to help someone else stay alive.

SPEAKER: Well, I think this is the whole problem right there. They used to have, say, closeness among people, and everybody sharing, and a lot of visiting, and getting together, and dancing. And this is gone. You don't see this anymore. Someone tries to have a party, it ends up in a big fight.

And they break up in just a little while. I don't know, they just can't seem to get along anymore, like they used to. A lot of it has to do with people have a lot of money now, they live for themselves, and they don't share-- don't have that sharing anymore, like they used to.

[INDIAN MUSIC AND SINGING]

SPEAKER: Oh, the full-bloods have mostly died off. You can count the full-bloods here on one hand. And most other tribes, they can count their half-breeds on one hand. They're mostly full-bloods, except for our tribe. So it's created a big identity crisis with a lot of our older-- the people-- mostly, our parents. Our grandparents are cool, they're Indian.

But our parents and stuff, having gone through BIA schools and stuff, they're really messed up with their identity, and they try to be white really hard. And so now, with us kids, like with me and my folks, I turn their head around to where they look at the good aspects of being Indian, instead of the bad ones that they were brainwashed into thinking about being-- they were ashamed.

So they don't identify with their friends so much now as with the Indian. They've turned militant. [LAUGHS] But that's only because I helped them deal with that, with who they were as Indian people.

JOHN YDSTIE: What was the beginning of that turnaround? Why did it come?

SPEAKER: Well, like, for my parents, it came when I started college. And I got involved-- I tried organizing-- an Indian student at the university. Because I was having a hard time adjusting to city life after coming back here all summer, and then going back to Portland, where, suddenly, I really felt different.

I've got black hair and darker skin, and there's all these pale faces running around. I really felt different. And I needed to be around other Indian people that knew how I felt and understood. So I started getting involved. My parents, they wished I wouldn't have gotten involved in that. They were a little bit worried about it.

Because they thought-- well, there's a lot of racism. Once you become visibly different from white people, they-- well, there's a look, discrimination and stuff. When you're sensitive to it, you know it's there. And so I started going-- I got on TV, and I got some radio places, and in the newspapers, and stuff.

And so my folks started seeing the positive aspects of being Indian, and it was OK. And so their whole head-- daddy started talking about the good aspects of the reservation life, and his schooling, and stuff.

And they've moved back here now. They're living back here and working back here. And that's really a change for them, because dad has said, he'd never come back to the reservation because there's only bad memories for him. And now, he won't go back to Portland, even for a visit. He doesn't like it back there.

JOHN YDSTIE: Do you think that people around Turtle Mountain now are getting through that identity crisis? Are they beginning to find out what they are?

SPEAKER: Yeah. I was in a teacher co-op program for a year and a half, and I dealt with it with a lot of the interns from Belcourt and there. They says, well, what do you when someone comes up to you and starts ranking the white folks? Because they're half-white. They say that because they're half-white, that they're going to stick up for the white people.

And I'd say, all you have to do is deal with the facts as far as, you know, the Indian people being ripped off by white folks. And the rampant racism that exists around this reservation, especially in Dunseith-- I mean, I've lived in Dunseith, so I know and I've experienced it firsthand. So I'd tell them, I accept everyone for who they are.

I says, if an Anglo accepts me, that's fine. I can sit and rap with anybody, Blacks, Chicanos, anybody. And I've lived with them all. And I really love them as people. But if someone doesn't like me because I'm Indian-- and you can get the feelings, you can get the vibes-- then I stay-- usually, I stay away from that person, or else, I'll deal with it, if I can.

So more and more, they're recognizing that-- I told them. I said, for one thing, I don't sit on the fence. I said, OK, I'm half-white, I'm half-French, I'm half-Indian, but I've chosen the Indian side. I don't sit on that fence and say, well, you know, I'm so-and-so. I've chosen a side. That's how I've dealt with it, and that's what I usually tell them.

And so they're-- I don't know-- they're having a hard time, a lot of the people my age even, besides our folks' age, and stuff. But I think, at least, they're thinking about it. You know, they're thinking about it. But there's still a lot of identity with just French and with white.

One of my girlfriends from Fort Berthold said, it's almost hopeless being an Indian now. But what she means is the old, old-time traditional ways. There's so many things in our religion that is lost. The spirituality is lost. There's so many things about women, like not wearing eagle feathers or else going through a ceremony of the-- those things are lost.

SPEAKER: I think the now-generation has had a chance to reevaluate white cultures. And there are many, many who have never had the opportunity. Like, my generation never had the opportunity to investigate the Indian cultures that were not passed on to this particular generation.

And we have-- in our later years-- have been able to look and say, hey, this looks really beautiful. This was nice. This was something good. And why in the hell didn't I know about this when I was a youngster. So, I think, some of the kids nowadays are becoming very, very interested in what they were when they were, say, Indian.

You know, what was it like to be Indian? What did we do? How did we live? What did we think about? What were our ideals? What did we think was important? And they've had an opportunity to reevaluate, say, maybe, having a Cadillac or being able to do something spiritual, maybe. And I say, I think this is better. This is better than that. At least, you're giving the opportunity to choose at an earlier age, what do you want?

There was no real knowledge that was being passed on, if you didn't receive it from your parents. And I think, probably, the parents' generation were not that well-acquainted with old, full-blooded Indian traditions. Well, we have this conflict of a half-breed, and mixed-bloods, and what you knew. So, in a way, this is one of the reasons.

And then also, another reason is that the only thing we learned about was what we learned in school about Indian. One reason was the movies and whatever we read always identified the Indian as being the villain or the not good person. And it was really very detrimental to character growth.

JOHN YDSTIE: Do you think that those Indian traditions, the values and the view of the world that the old Indians had, are valuable to our society as a whole?

SPEAKER: I think they would. If you just look at pollution, your environment, and how the dollar can make people totally disregard what goes on with your ecology, with the land itself, your water, how they pollute the air, pollute the streams, and tear up the land by strip mining, and so forth, I think, if they had some of these close ties with nature that Indian people had, they would think twice.

They would have cleaned up the environment a long time ago, and we could be spending dollars on things that are a lot more important.

SPEAKER: I wish we could go back to the beliefs and the traditions of our early ancestors, because they practiced things that I don't think any of us could practice today. Because we are too selfish. We are too society-orientated, I guess. And we could never be like they were, making the sacrifices that they did.

They weren't concerned about keeping up with the Joneses. They were concerned about sharing with someone who had less. They had a great respect for all life. They didn't damn the whites, or damn the Blacks, or damn anybody. I mean, everything had life and everything should be cherished because it had life.

We have lost a lot of that today. And the things that we keep here still, I think, are the family relationship, or the family ties, and the generosity of sharing, especially in the area of foods, with someone who has less.

JOHN YDSTIE: Are the Indian people going back to those values?

SPEAKER: I would say, no, because they are too orientated under the Christian practices and beliefs. Because it's kind of funny, the Indian practiced some of the greatest Christianity and, perhaps, were the founders of communism in as much as they shared everything. And we were called pagans for it.

So we had white clergy come in and tell us what it was all about, and we lost something much more valuable in the process. And today, we can get by saying, I'm Lutheran, or I'm Catholic, and follow the few rules that are set up by the church and forget the basic thing of brotherly love and respect of life.

I don't think our Indian people would have ever even tolerated talk about abortions and all this stuff. And we're not going to go back. We have grown up in a world of competitiveness. And if John Jones has a new house, so I need one too. If he's got a new car, so I need two.

You know, we have grown up with this, and, I think, we've been influenced by it, and we are practicing it. And I don't think any one of us is big enough to make a sacrifice of saying, well, I'm going back. We're just too comfortable with what we have today.

RADIO HOST: The Turtle Mountain Indian Reservation, Our Home Town, one in a series of sound self-portraits illustrating the attitudes and character of life in small communities. Produced by Minnesota Public Radio station, KCCM, with funds provided by The North Dakota Committee for the Humanities and Public Issues.

Producers of the series are John Ydstie, Dennis Hamilton, and Bill Siemering. You may purchase a cassette copy of this program by contacting KCCM, Concordia College, Moorhead, Minnesota, 56560.