there's a proposal now for call development in this area. How would you feel about that? I don't like it. But I think I'm against it mainly because I think it's going to upset my lifestyle. I don't have land and I'm not involved in that type of thing. But I definitely think it will disrupt the lifestyle of the community. That's Jackie Samuels. And then she lives in Mott North Dakota population 1368 located in the southwestern part of the state mod has lignite deposits which could be developed to fuel coal gasification plants in this program in the series titled. Our hometown residents of Maat will discuss this conflict between retaining their present way of life and change through call development between Agriculture and energy the series of programs is produced with financial assistance from the North Dakota committee for the Humanities and public issues by Minnesota Public Radio Station k c c m the interview John ydstie. Air Force col development or oily valve Renegade Industrial Development is going to bring in more people and I don't particularly want this to happen so I can see where it would be good for the small town business man in the community. As far as at least it could be good. It doesn't necessarily have to be good as far as economics go away. There are potential for towns the size of my to pick up money and develop streets and parks and schools everything else. But I'm personally would just as soon as stay the way it is Reven. Lose little population ecology. Why is a Weather going to be such serious problems at unrepairable or not. I don't know but it definitely will change things. Hopefully they I think the coal and oil development is here and it's going to come I don't even do about it though energy is needed in. The United States has a hole in the world is a hole. So we're going to have to development Hopefully they'll go slow and and do the best job with the least disturbance they can do. And I would have less problems. But the end up yet depends on how things are administrative. How fast we move my neck got to go slow policies the best to think that this land that as we've talked about earlier that his grandparents homesteaded. Maybe nothing but a spoiled bank for our children are our grandchildren. I get very emotional about it. And I'm not going to try and quoting facts about it because I don't want to get into that. It's just a thing I have. Every time I think about it, or I hear about it read in the paper see it on TV, I think about that commercial where the Indian comes down the river and The Tear falls down his cheek. And I really feel that way when I try to look out here across my Horizon and not be able to see it anymore. I think we'll just be simple. I'm also concerned about people pollution and I feel it would change our way of life. And of course this time against if it changed it to the point that it would really become A drastic change I feel my family and I would leave I think if we're going to have a lot of people pollution and I would just as soon live in a larger Community because then I would have some more of the cultural arts advantages and not the disadvantage of these people. I've nothing against these people coming in but I think if they come in we're going to have a lot of Chances with him. It's going to bring her around a lot of problems and police protection. It's going to bring about a lot of small riots more drunks more problems of any kind sewage problem School problems and it will change your whole way of life. I'm sure as far as the City Fathers Day like to see development and some way of increasing business and the economy of the area providing jobs for young little thing, but I personally think that forgive him piece of land. It's got a carrying capacity whether it's animals or people are in the house and they will produce so much and I think we could probably reach that point and we're supporting as many people as we can under the lifestyle we have now with course we go on a cold and all of them for a few more people at least for a short time. I don't think we'll be a permit type thing. and then this is what I hate to see you either going to come in and disrupt things and then hopefully they'll do it the proper way so they won't ruin too much and then the end of 40 or 50 years whenever the coal and oil resources are used up my they'll move out and we're left with hopefully I'll go back to what it is now or close to it that it comes in slow enough so that the community he can handle. The increase in population and a good controls are put on the environment as far as health standards put on. I know I've been around coal mines that I'd hate to live around and I wouldn't want those here. Do they have good good clean operation. I wouldn't hide welcome it 100% They can have a clean operation. I'm sure they can put on this Earth that can't be done the right way as a merchant. Naturally. We'd like to see more people not as an individual with all the all the merchants. But on the other hand with the Clean Air that we have at the present time and if the land can be reclaimed I'd much rather stay as is demonstrated that they can reclaim Live Well, would I have seen where they have claimed that they can reclaim land. I don't think a jackrabbit could hide in the quarter section. And that if they can't do any better than that, I'm totally against strip Coleman e stands now, it's just adequate and their bedroom to taking a few more students but that they had to take it anymore. We have a shortage of teachers in classrooms and our own children would suffer because of this way about the school system up so our children get a good education on the good personal attention from the teachers and if If they become crowded up, there is more students having to do is every little room they can find for classroom. Like it has happened in some of these times not enough teachers to go around their education is going to suffer. And I can see some real problems this way also not as many problems with it the fire coverage because we take care of this by adding another fire engine there another policeman but a school building is something that people aren't going to erectile you have an impact here and this initial impact of construction workers is quite large compared to what you have to run the plant after its hair. And for a few years we're going to have just an awful lot of people in their area. And then of course when they go back to working for us to drop sway back to maybe 1/4 what was here, you think. Hettinger county has a responsibility to the rest of the nation to supply them with energy. All some people use that for an argument and perhaps there is a little bit but they have to remember the food is the first priority it boils down to one thing. Would you rather have lots to eat? And because it would you rather not have anything to eat the alarm which is the worse. I think you'd rather have a lot more to eat and be a little bit cold you can put on more clothes, but you can adjust do you don't have to drive as much but if you don't have food you don't have any the coal is not that valuable. I kind of think that that there is an effort by the A's huge combines to gain control of the land and I realize that energy is important and that is needed. And they keep telling us that if they can't get the coil in 10 years. They won't need it because of the other forms of energy. And we know that for what they're talkin about gasification. It's going to take 5 6 7 maybe even eight years ago some of these plants they want to which you going to put them very close to the 10-year Mart when then their plans by their own admission should be obsolete so I don't believe all this I think I know in my part of the country were. Where one? coal company owns miles miles miles miles of land They won't if they don't release it, they own it may have acquired it through last 20 25 years. And when if they do take the call out, the land will be absolutely worthless the hole in the ground. I'll be probably about 40 feet deep and I'll be half full of water. How about India claims by the coal companies that they will reclaim the land. well I have a I have a master's degree in soil chemistry. And I can tell you. That there is no way that you can take. the type of soil that is if you might say but they're going to bring out from say three four feet down or 20 feet down and spread it out and and make that type of growing environment that we now have there's no way they could going to be able to do that short of a few thousands years. Are we being lied to to think I was being kind? and woman County where Coal Company here a couple 3 years ago when this first started they leveled out some of the Knolls at the where they'd stripped and they haven't grown anything but Russians this was on it since and that just happened this year. It's been very rough till then and sure there's going to be some isolated cases where they're going to be able to take an and and have a signs of growth on where they probably make an effort to put all black dirt back on top and in and they're going to get a certain amount of course, but nothing like it was inevitable. I'll call his name after the bowl. If there if people want to do something about it can it can happen. It's it's just like anything else if you get it if you get enough people behind it'll happen. And it's going to have to take a lot of people and then perhaps a lot of lot of work because the other side is got a lot of money and money buys most things these days in the past. We have exploited the various areas of the of the of the earth without thinking of consequences been very little effort in the past even though I very little Nobody's been shouting for it in the past. I know nobody's giving a damn but that's all over with that isn't because they're going to do it voluntarily not by any means people are still greedy and that's true of huge corporations as much as individuals, but they're going to be forced to do at 5 federal and state legislation brought about but public opinion and by the force of public opinion, it's been proven like an Appalachian. They just they just take over and consideration and Roofing in Wyoming already. I'm just wondering she wrote an article in that Northern Plains resource magazine, and he said he sold his ranches in Wyoming. I moved to Montana and Nicole moved in and it's he just he just couldn't get away from it. And if we had the topsoil a lot of areas have wouldn't be quite so bad you could go along with it. But when you figure out to hear that we've got from 5 to maybe 8:10 in the topsoil. That's just like scraping the dust off the counter and say I'm going to save that when I get to remodel the house. I'll put the same dust back. You can never find it when you get all done. No way in the world. Can I see that they'd ever? But this topsoil back on and get anything to be. even 20% productive is it was before I don't see how I can possibly doing Michelle. We have enough time. Just hanging out to natural causes. You lose a 2-1 bad heavy rainstorm. You had a new fight for 3 for 5 years getting things squared around. So let's productive again. So you can be a farmer the way that you thought you should be doing it all along and say you're going to move it off from transplanted bring it back again and something else I respect. I'd like to see the farmers headlining setting up a program for Reclamation rather than all Engineers. I told the governor here a while back on. It's been almost four five months now and I talked to him about it. I told him I'd like to see some farmers in some of these committees and what not to set up the Reclamation and who decides or reclaim because usually I would say nine out of every ten Farm has it ever been to one of the mines and have seen what they call Reclamation go away and just shake their head to slap up their sleep because they realize that it's not what they would be doing. You know, it's somebody's pipe dream that thought this was a great idea and I just feel that we should be taking advantage of the god-given things that are here on this Earth that he has supplied. For mankind solar power which is why we're not taking advantage of it. He's made this unlimited resource non-polluting. It's there everyday and when I do is not the same as when not including it's free. It's right there. It's almost a sin against God not to make use of these things I can feel for this part companies, you know, because it's so hard but if they would get on the ball and manufacturer Swinton units are solar units in and go into this and servicing of them. I I don't think we'd have any reason to go out of business just be a little change in the type of business that they do as far as I tell him goes. I think we see everything that we've held dear being shoved aside. It was a meeting not long ago last week with a comment was made now when these workers come into your area you ladies must open your arm. Babysitting services for them so that these people can get out. When the way is turn on she said well when I had little children nobody set up a babysitting service for me. And I think this is a reaction to everyone I think people definitely feel and they're Outsiders and that's probably the wrong way to look at it. Keep her own identity. The only feeling that we expressed earlier this. personality that the Southwest District has I mean it's it's something that you don't find and I hope it were strong enough to hold on to our own identity here and not just lose it with the influx of Niger population more industry and whatever goes along with them if we can remain individuals, I think that's that's a strong part there any town is Giving your customer attention. Good service. And a good clean place in which to operate out of her work out of and to treat your help, right? But the big thing about any business places, you've got to let the people know you're there. You don't always have to be nice to me. But you got to be let him know that you're there and then like to see you there. Even if it's scrubbing floors or breaking a window or doing this not they like to see the owner around there until I guess they feel that The owners going to make a buck off when they like to see him do it. 792 792 out of 8 9295 $8 each Good afternoon, sir. How are you? So so hello Paul. How you doing? I was coming. What's your problem? I don't know what I want for the drapes to stick in the plaster. Why do you want the Molly screw? I don't know what you call a bear with me and will. Pipefitter welder running without it down sheetrock there. No, it's not you draw gets back to regular plaster and it's some would we want to find two before but the ends we have to have five. I'm still $0.15 or more for your money Martin. See there I got cheated though. That would have been the one to get. Thank you Martin. I'll pay my bill when I'm all done a little at a time. I'm speaking with Ron swindler and Harry Van lieshout who are officers in the united Plainsman a group organized. in response to call development in North Dakota, basically our position right now is that Until we have proof that Reclamation 100% Reclamation is possible. In our air isn't going to be destroyed and our water isn't going to be lost and Bloated. We would like it stopped at the present level to find out these answers and to answer some of these questions and questions are coming up every day. There's every day. You can find a new question or two that's being raised to do the development and you would like to have these questions answered in the only way you can do this is stop the development and some first because if the as a development goes along more questions come up and the other ones aren't answered and it keeps adding to the problem. It seems to me that they was just developed this whole area. All Southwestern North Dakota at one time in one big bang and this was only going to last for a period of thirty or forty years the life of these plants and you bring in the old they are talking about a large population increase hear you bring these people in here and you're there only hear it for 30 or 40 years. So you will you create a problem when you bring them in here the impact and then you're left with a problem after the development is gone. So we're very concerned about that as people live here worried about our taxes and air quality in water and and everything because I'm a farmer and Rancher if they tear up a piece of Mylanta, how do I get to be producing the same product in the same quality and quantity after they're done money as before and at present. I've been to several mines and I've seen what they feel is Reclamation. I've seen the statistics and since 1889 and I forget the number of thousands of Acres that have been mine since in strip mine in state of North Dakota. Only three acres have been turned over by the board as reclaimed acres and they were under the Old Law and none have at present. Turn back. I reclaim my end now, so we only have 3 acres out of several thousand and I reclaim and by the way those Acres the way I understand it now or you are grassland Acres. Now, there's possibly lot of acres in Southwestern North Dakota that could be far under there presently in the grass. And if they mine at did turn it back in the grass. Well the quality of land there might be able to produce his food which seems to me is very short supply around the world and this is going to become a major factor in future years is a food production and energy they have many untapped sources of energy. So let's say Let this food production go until we know we can get this land back in the production after it's over with now you put the question to your own mind. Why did these companies come out in North Dakota and Montana and Wyoming when they've got oodles and oodles of bituminous coal in the East that are deep minable deep mines at the present have a better safety record strip-mined usually and why did they come out here? Well, the answer always comes back to you. They came out here because of our clean air of the small controls and whatnot back East limiting factor there and they are getting into trouble and disrespect the labor force is there their minds already started and the people would want him to stay there. And by the way, you can have to burn to tons of are almost to tons of our most offer cold equal 1 ton are usually 2 minutes called. Anna the sulfur content after you burn these two are almost equal to the highest offer a bituminous coal. So when you stop and look at these facts makes you wonder why they keep barking and always comes back. They want our air we've got other problems in the cities have problems is such as police department's water sewage schools. Who's going to pay for all the schools? And what happens to the school after all these other people leave because they're not going to stay here at the end of development. They're going to leave I think like Ron says there are other sources of energy that are available but will not be developed because of the control these large companies have on the economy and what is being developed in the state legislature and and greater North Dakota Association and several others that North Dakota needs Industrial Development. They had no development or anything, you know, where they would they were trying to sell a particular idea. They kept showing at we need this development. We need more industry in here and what not and it's A good thing. I believe they have some type and different kinds but this is basically one Basic Energy in dust, you know, one thing that I think we would probably missing here in this discussion and I wanted to bring it up if you don't mind you. Was that our way of life on here. I think this is basically it would have scared most of us. We live out here for several reasons all of us have our own reasons, but I think our overall view is that we live out here because we love the Open Country. We love the Clean Air. We love to see the stars at night and we love to see our neighbor and we enjoy just this part of the country. We like the hills. We like to we like it just as it is that's why we're living here and don't get the idea that we wanted to stay just like this because we're all Progressive people and we do change with the times and we do always start new thing, but Wheel of the Elbow Room out here and a large influx of people will hurt this. I think a lot of a person owns a piece of land that you would defend that with your life or in other words if some country invaded this so you were fighting for what's yours and I think yeah, I'd have to be with her. Maybe that's why I'm in this organization because I just couldn't stand to see anything happen to that. I probably would give him and if I was absolutely sure that it could be as reproductive again as it is, but I haven't seen that proof yet Kendrick little and I don't want to see anything happen to it. You've been listening to residents of North North Dakota Express their views on possible Cole development in their region one program in a series exploring the values of small towns titled our hometown. It's produced by Minnesota Public Radio Station k c c m with financial assistance for the North Dakota committee for the Humanities and public issues. Producers of the series or John gets did Dennis Hamilton and Dale Sebring. 4 cassette copy of this programme my contact case ECM, Concordia College, Moorhead, Minnesota 56560