I want to try to make us just as brief as I possibly can to leave as much time as as we can for give and take between mistress Latin yourselves, but I think it would be not proper. If I didn't say what a pleasure it is for all of us connected with WCCO both radio and television to have dicks Salon here in the Twin Cities for a day-and-a-half and certainly to have him here at the University to to talk with you. I suppose it's people like ourselves that have to work every day with a network and really depend upon a network.to fully appreciate the kind of operation to CBS News is the kind of professionalism it displays and a kind of Pride and it has in its work and I think that's reflected in the man that had the operation. We see it every day and we admire it and I think we try to reflect that our own product by way of very brief background is a lawyer by training a graduate of Harvard Magna cumlada like to Phi Beta Kappa who really came to CVS by the corporate ladder if you will be joined CBS 1952 is a vice president and has served two stints as president of CBS News one in the early sixties from 1961 to 1964 and a second starting 1966 until now. He has served through most of the Vietnam years. to the Watergate crisis resignation letter next time the Ascension of mr. Ford and probably the most tumultuous times of all the year of Sally Quinn then he is largely responsible for the half-hour Network news as we now know it. And may before he retires as he may talk about to be responsible for an hour and network news sometime in the very uncertain future. He is responsible for programs like 60 minutes. For the year-round election unit that allows CBS News to make those. Terrific predictions before the polls close secret that all of us would like two more answers to it certainly is an outspoken advocate of Free Press First Amendment rights the proper role for broadcasting in the whole scheme of the full of information this country. And is really emerge now is a spokesman for Network news in Washington and elsewhere. He's also a very good friend of Dan rather's so I I will want to end up here. I also want to take the introduction to time to introduce. The other person is sitting with Mr. Slant at the front table name is Peter hurford whose official title I think is director of affiliate liaison for CBS News, which really means that he's kind of the troubleshooter. We're having problems with the network news or need favors from Network news that an affiliate level. He's the guy we go to and he's being very helpful. In many many ways that I think are seldom seen or understood by the public. So he is here. He has a strong background in news the write-up for Cronkite as Saigon for cheap. Many years and I perhaps a call upon him for some questions as well at this time. Let me call on my counterpart at Radio Chris Beckman just to kind of start things off. Thick lashes stand up because we're going to get in the questions now and I supposed to a broken the ice by asking the first one but I don't think many of you are here with with no questions and judging from what we heard last night again this morning from Echelon. Most interesting thing to me was President Ford to have airtime for his Kansas City speech about a month ago. Now we're White House made a request a formal request finally to the networks and they succeeded to the request after first having judged speech to be not newsworthy dick. Why don't you get into that and explain what the decision-making was and then we'll go to questions from you all after that. I just one thing when my biography I did nine most of it I all of a Tino disqualifies me from my job at is very kind. It was said that I was head of the news division from 61 to 64 and then came back again 66 since we believe in the truth and nothing but the truth I have to tell you in 64 I was fired. Yeah, then they got so desperate they had to take me back. the Future Farmers of America being wise in 1 Word a mess. I hope it never happens. Again. It certainly had never happened before there are two ways that the president gets on radio and television network and they mixed up the two one-way is for the White House to let us know that there is a speech coming that they think it's fairly important or very important on this in general is what is going to be sometimes they even give us the whole script that's what happened in the Future Farmers of America in there was no formal request. It was happy. Here it is. We think it's important and we actually got the transcript the morning of the speech as you may recall. It was a 12-point program economic program who's climax was a 12-point. Stay healthy. It's true that we came to the conclusion that I very much difficulty that this was hardly worth live coverage in prime time. And so has matter of news judgment. We turned it down and subsequently. I heard the beach of the other networks. It turned it down in the past. It's always been left at that this time with a new Administration, which I know very much about how the game is played translated the original information into a formal request. Since Roosevelt first used radio back in the thirties. It has been a policy or a tradition that when the president of the United States makes a formal request in one form or another saying that he had something urgent which he feels it's in the National interest to talk directly to the American people about what he can do. So only on the radio and television, there's no other way to do it that we do xc2 the request. That request came in about noon of a day that the speech came and there was hardly time to consider the consequences and reverse a 40-year policy. And so we did what in some ways comes easiest. We follow the old policy and since it was a formal request we exceeded to it and carried live. I think this is called for a whole week zamination of the relationships between the White House and the radio and television and we'll see where we go from here, but it was an acute embarrassment because we have always at least been able to argue with ourselves that it's been a matter of news judgment here. We will put the position when we went on record with the White House saying otherwise, I news judgment, but it shouldn't be carried and your bird was on all networks that night if it's that kind of odd occurrence that Causes you to be examined and see where you go from here. It's a very difficult problem is a very important problem, but I don't expect it to happen again. I think the the White House has learned his lesson that they will never do it in these two steps because it's too embarrassing for all of us. I still think we have to Grapple with the problem of whether we ought to automatically to accede to a formal request because he couldn't make an imbalance the whole relationship between the executive and the people the executive in the legislative branch an imbalance that we tried to solve at least in the measure back in June of 73 when we announced it. What would look like a very radical policy modifying the British system that when the prime minister's talks on radio and television. The shadow prime minister of a shadow cabinet gets time within 48 Hours equivalent time. We adopted a policy because it's harder to identify who the main opponents people spokesman for contrave used. We adopted the policy that we would put on an equivalent time within 7 Days anybody when the president on the air on a controversial issue in which there was significant National disagreement now that was just our policy so it doesn't quite balance things because he's on only one network. But this was an unpleasant and difficult experience that we still have to digest and see how to handle it better in the future. 1 student that speech. I don't know that we we tried to keep ourselves in the news division separate we happen to be in a separate building from headquarters and from a television network in the radio network that separate from management way over on the west side where they would never come slumming and I feel strongly that I make a news decisions and prepare the broadcast on what happens to it. After that in terms of sales in terms of station clearance is something that I want to stay a long way away from and so I really don't know who carried it and how many of them my guess is that since it was prime time. It was on relatively short notice and Dita was here less than 8 hours that the Affiliates most of them carried it because I had nothing else to put in its next asked what is cbs's news position at this time regarding filmed outtakes requested as court evidence that is equivalent to a report his notebooks that we will resist all the way up to the Supreme Court and Beyond if we can get up that high before we will give it away. Give an indeed. I followed the practice when there seems to be some indication that some litigant whether the government or private litteken might want our route takes I take it out of a film Library. I take it out of the archives. I put it in my office so I can have personal custody of it. Because I don't want a librarian to have to go to jail. You know, it's it's it's I'm the one that made the policy and I want to take the rap for it besides. I need a rest. In this same connection you had a key might want to briefly describe the suit that you and the other networks are intuitive get the Nixon tapes. Yes. We have a unique situation. I don't know if this ever happened before where we are emitted the second class citizenship in reporting on the Watergate cover-up trial because the tapes that have been admitted into evidence and play to the jury and play to everybody in the courtroom have been forbidden to us. We may not copy them and play them on the news. We and the other two networks and the radio television news Directors Association have joined us in a suit to test that out because it's a very dangerous precedent over and over again. I'm told by the people who are attending the trials that the transcripts don't begin to give you the realest or you've got to listen to those tapes and yet we who have the capability of letting the American people judge for themselves by listening firsthand through no filter. I've been forbidden to do that. We brought a suit to get that cured. It is before a judge gazelle. whose main claim to fame is that his father was the world's greatest expert on bringing up children, and he brought up a good one and Are lawyers who will always wrong tell us they're optimistic. The next question was are you still receiving pressure from the White House about your evening news that it isn't fair. I'm happy to report not at all. Not at all the new Administration. Your predecessor Fred friendly quit because the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing didn't get broadcast by CBS News observed one in the audience who has the power to make those kinds of decisions now, but first I got to explain that the Fred friendly was not only my predecessor. He was also My Success at 1 I'm not in all kind of wasn't the reason but he quit but the way it works is that The CBS News division is a separate equal and autonomous division. The CBS television network is a separate equal and autonomous Division. And neither of us in general has the power to veto the other so that when a thing like that comes up when the news division recommends that something should be carried. It isn't decided by the television network whose orientation has to be quite different it goes to Senior Management. I can only say and I happen to have been abroad I was very lucky that time. I was very far removed from the whole country see but I can say that. Since I've come back the news division in February 1966, February 14th. What was the st. Valentine's Massacre? I have never had a request a recommendation of mine of the news division said it isn't really mine. It's my colleagues will bring it to me and then I passed it on I've never had one turn down. Maybe it's because they've learned their lesson. The next question from the audience dealt with the feedback that they get from the Evening News. The question was do you get feedback from the general public and what effect if any does it have we never have a general feedback from the public? We have a lodge feedback from that probably a typical portion of the public that writes letters. And at the risk of sounding arrogant. I have to tell you it has no effect. I don't think that you can make news judgments on the basis, even of more scientific public opinion surveys and reactions the letter. I tried I think that we must make our news judgments including choice of news Personnel on the basis of our best professional judgment. And if one abandons that even a little of there's no end to how far you were better than you start making your news judgment. So your judgments about what order go on the air and who are to be on me by wedding your finger and holding it up to the wind to see which way it went to go and that isn't the way news can work. We have to exercise our best judgment on what is important who is the most able to report? And go ahead. This isn't the universal feeling. I some years back. I was at a dinner. I am the publisher of the only afternoon paper in New York at turn to me and said what is your quota for international news on the evening news? And I said I don't understand your question. What kind of quarters should you have on international news? Oh, she said we never allow more than 15% of international news newspaper. And I said how in the world did you ever get to that and she said well during the Korean War we took a public public opinion survey and we founded the Korean War didn't sell. I can only say that's a hell of a way to run a newspaper. Someone in the audience made this observation and ask this question a few weeks back. There was a news report on the evening news concerning Angela Davis that seem to show her being treated with disrespect by the reporter. The next item was a story about the capture of a planeload of marijuana. I'm wondering about the subtle implication of that juxtaposition and whether you had any knowledge of that sequence about the disrespect card, I I would have to look at the the transcript to it if she was treated with she was then testifying before the committee has ever called. It if if our reporter reported that and treated with disrespect and he had no right to it was a nun journalistic thing to do and it should have been caught I can assure you that the juxtaposition was accidental it it it was a lack of a woman's these things are put together under intense pressure and quite often. We don't take into consideration sequence. We had a remarkable example to that on me Morning News. Just last week AT&T has taken to buying 30-second spots about we serve you. and we ran such a spot they bought it immediately preceding a full discussion of the antitrust suit against AT&T to the sort of thing that Would not sufficiently aware. It's very difficult under the pressures that we are keeping in mind that sort of thing and I'm not even sure whether if we had been aware of that sequence that without somebody like you calling it to our attention. We would have been sufficiently sensitive to have moved it away. That would be no problem. You you you can move stories to avoid things like that. I hope we would have been sensitive enough to it, but I can't guarantee it and it's something as time goes on way back to learn. Okay down here in the aisle. Yes, I since I made it. And I was there from the beginning and I have a clear conscience. If I didn't have a clear conscience. I add fudge the answer some 3 years ago. The Vice President in charge of documentaries and the senior executive producer of all documentaries came to me and said look, we do one CBS reports a month documentaries and its most distinguished series we've ever had and it's been on for all these years and yet it's not getting the kind of attention but it should and the reason is it has no continuity. We have no, responded who does all of them the way Admiral did give us one of your best correspondence who will be the permanent car spotted on CBS reports. In my usual decisive way I didn't do anything about it because I couldn't find the right man or the potential eligibles were doing such a good job where they were and had no appetite to move that I let it go. when President Nixon resigned and I should back up a little and tell you something about the breakfast I had with John ehrlichman is the only time I ever met him in the spring of 71. He was a guest on the morning news in New York. And when I got to the office upon a little note from The Producers saying we're having breakfast at the hotel plaza. Would you care to come up and join us and meet the fellow my dead and after a few minutes of small talk ehrlichman turned to me and asked me to reassign them out of the White House. I told him that what he had just succeeded in doing is giving Dan Rather permanent security as long as As long as Nixon was in the White House and dad wanted to stay there. But when when the president when President Nixon resigned it seemed to me to be a good time to review the situation. I called an up and asked me to come to New York and I said today then you have done a superb job and you deserve anything you want short of taking cronkite's place. He's not quite ready to be replaced. You can stay where you are in the White House under the new administration at a substantial salary increase, but I have another idea. Would you like to be the chief car spotted on CBS reports and take the back of a Saturday weekend news on the Sunday weekend news and continue with political reporting? at the same Salary increase cuz I didn't want it to be an offer they couldn't refuse. Dan said he'd like to think about it which is why dad is such a good man. He doesn't shoot from the hip and he went back to Washington. I thought about it which as in the case of so many of us consists largely of talking to your wife. Both he and his wife was somewhat reluctant to leave Washington, and they thought about it for a week, and then Dan called me up and said come on down and talk to Gene. That's his wife and me and maybe we can come to a decision. I went down and visited with him and went through the same offer and we discussed it and the next day then call me and Dad said I think I'll take it. That was no pressure from the outside or from the inside. It was a decision of mine, which I think is going to work very well. Actually in normal time is the White House assignment is not all that interesting you sit around and you sit around and you sit around and you get handouts and then you try to chase him down and you have to travel all over the place and in the past that has indicated to me that from time to time. He wanted to change of scenery indeed some eight or nine years ago. He said he was weak on fire Affairs and he would like to take a temporary assignment abroad and he became a chief car spotted in London for 6 months or a year another day. Good thing about Dan isn't he is constantly trying to learn. So he took it I think is going to work well and it was one of the one of those non stories that it was very simple. It was left entirely to Dan and misses rather. The next question concerned the White House tapes assuming you win your case to are the White House tapes. Will you are them expletives and all I'm not quite sure. This is a question that we faced up to at the grappled with at the time that it looked as though there would be a trial in the Senate and Obviously the traveling Center would have included playing the tapes as part of the trial of you covering it live and we we were trying to decide how to do that and I guess we hadn't finally decided when the resignation came and I've got us off the hook. My guess is that we would have felt that we were playing with history if we tried the beep Adora do a 7-second delay. Where you have this much time having a lapsed and it isn't a live thing. I would say depending on how crucial it wise to illustrate the nature of the conversations and the nature of the man and how crucial to the central story that will determine whether and depending on how bad it is. I have to do that on a case-by-case basis where the difficulty is it now is it when you read expletive deleted that you read into it something to his a lot worse than it actually there. I don't know the answer to that yet. It's a tough problem and time and time again in this area in the area of showing film of the of what the Israelis did to the terrorists at after the murders that in the area of showing what the Dairy Farmers are doing and shooting Cavs. We get lots of mail saying that's alright for me, but my children were watching this is a notion that I do reject. I'm not about to shape on news for the 12 year old only 8 year old. 12 year old knows that language but there are very fine questions in here and you may be able to give the flavor of it without using the language to depend on the circumstances. I think so I can't tell you which way is going to go. Let me let me ask you a question. if these tapes are available, and there is not a goddamn and not a bullshit, but some of the the participle verbs anytime is passed how many of you would delete it? 91 okay. I asked this question at the most conservative. College that I visited in the last year Brigham Young and and you know, what the hell? And I was amazed the vote was 15 to one against deletion. That's what I said was. Wow. Only I use other language. Someone in the audience made reference to a recent documentary on Cuba and a scheduled OAS meeting that came close after that. How closely are you aware of how your programming can influence government policy? The person asked I can assure you not. One of the things that all of us feel very strongly about is that going back to what I said in another context I judgments or 2B news. Is it important? Is it timely it is it relevant? Is it something that we think the people ought to know? And it is not what are the consequences are we going to get people angry or we're going to make him happy. Is it going to have a good influence or a bad influence II parenthetically I should say that we was being subject to a tremendous amount of criticism in the business and this causes the reception we don't report it recorded. And if you want to stay honest in this business, you got to make your judgments on other grounds, then what effects might have and certainly we don't do it in terms of influencing. Actually. I don't think many of the delegates to the OAS conference watched it. They knew everything that we had to tell the timing was partly accident. That's when we finally got in to Cuba for the interview. But we were delighted we know darn. Well Castro was making himself available prior to the OAS meeting. But you want a hit things at a time that it's up for decision and we thought it was important for people to have a first-hand. Look at that that what we could see if kill but we could portray of Cuba and what manner of man Castro held himself out as and that was the end of it a person in the audience inquired. What do you think is the ability of the Evening News to fully clarify the important issues and events in 1/2 hour news cast the realities in the practicalities of relationships to stations and relationships to the network can yield another at least another half hour half hour. I started that. it it's a very difficult problem and we've all discussed it and what I have said time and time again that he wished that at the end of a broadcast you could say for further details read your local newspaper. It would be honest thing to say. I think it's deplorable. I don't know what we can do about it. I think it's deplorable that survey after survey shows. Not only that the majority of people rely on television news as their primary source of information, but a great many people rely on it as the sole source. I wish that somehow or other in junior high. That would be a cost that tells people how to receive their news and for heaven's sakes never rely on any single source. Find time to watch on television find time to do a thorough reading of newspapers find time to read Naruto the news magazines but opinion magazines and particularly read opinion magazines that you would reject because you don't like what they say. It's the only way you'll ever get exposed to somebody else's point of view. And if there were you can decide that for yourself, but you'll never know if you don't listen to read. I don't know how you solve that but it's a very serious problem. Actually, if you watch somebody read newspaper, and I used to commute before I move offices move so far away from the station that that's impossible you have to drive now. I used to spend a lot of time watching my fellow commuters read a newspaper. And I'm convinced that they don't get very much more. I make it less. I don't read the newspaper then they get if they pay attention to what the television news broadcast. Could I skip everything? You know the sports about turns the sports page and the the Brokers turn right to the financial section to see how their stock didn't the older people turn to the obituary page. And I'll bet not one in a hundred readers will take a single article and read it all the way to the end. That's probably the newspaper for because they eat real off. But in general the Republic absorption of the material that is available is deplorably small. I wish we could do something about that. But the problem is particularly severe with us because with five columns lawn and though we like to say a picture is worth a thousand words it may or may not be I have to be a strong proponent of the view that intelligent well-researched. Well written words more often the worth a thousand pictures and actually do it and it will involve evolve. My general expectation is that we will handle perhaps 50% more stories. What's that? We leave out and in general, we will spend 50% more time on the stories now, I don't know how well it's going to work out that way and obviously he won't be that precise mathematically. But certainly it will give us the opportunity which we will take in Nevada Job of treating the stories that we do deal with other than 5 spectacular fires. You only need 30 seconds of that. You're not explaining or floods in General on the complicated stories in Heavens knows the story today are complicated. So many of them were the economic stories which none of us understand. We will spend more time in General on the stories. Yes one student in the audience asked the question that was on everyone's mind are the prospects for employment in careers in journalism. Very good if you ask me at this particular moment, Note I didn't say at this particular point in time. Listen to all businesses to be candid. It's gloomy. The current figures that there are 44 of 46000 students that are specializing in journalism at the moment. The market is very tight. There is great concern about the economy. There are newspapers and there are stations that have a freeze on hiring and it seems to be difficult to find a place on there are a lot of good bright people who have immense potential whom we got to lose cuz we're not getting them into the pipeline and it's it's very distressing depending on which Economist you talk to this is a problem that is only temporary and I don't know how to measure it. There is another Factor. Constantly slowly but constantly reduction in the number of newspapers. That is some compensation for that in that there are more and more weeklies that I'm coming into existence and for want of a better word Counter Culture newspapers with your very important so that there are opportunities there, but I can't say that the the job markets and in the field of Journalism is terribly good no worse than it is another moccasin better than it is in the automobile bucket. The next question concern the Nixon tapes again. How much can we expect to hear on the air? Even if they are released considering their length and the scarcity of broadcast time for new is only a portion or not until it happens if we can make a judgment I can't tell you where the how large is the portion will be however, you can be reasonably confident that some bright guy. And if anybody wants to go to his own business, he should do it right now suit will make these available not just us but everybody is somebody is going to make long-playing records out of them. You know, that's a good good idea. I think they ought to be in the libraries how many how many chances do you have to listen to history as it's being made? I tend to cry run. ability of cable television is banded broadcast television long-range possible short-range out of the question the most expensive thing. That Network television does is news. Expensive not only in the terms of the actual amount that we spend but when compared to the amount of revenues that we generate thank heaven. My company doesn't expect me to be a prophet set up that I started for Fearless expectations. I we lose millions and millions and millions of dollars annually cable connects with Set in almost every home cable is moving very slowly and they're like, I don't know what the figure is Knob 1015 20% of the people. I don't know how they can set up the kind of very large and expensive organization that is necessary. Especially in network television wear for everyone reporter you have you have to have six or seven or eight supporting people found many electricians producers film editors and so on so that I don't see how a cable in the foreseeable future is going to be able to afford that the technological technology technological ability is there cuz each cable currently, I have 20 different channels of 40 different channels and they have the advantage that when one channel carries news. It doesn't knock out something else. When the CBS television network or any other network or station is carrying news and it knocks out something else. I am inclined to think that is going to come that way. If you want to take a long look at the future and dream and it's a very lovely dream. Sooner or later if the political problems are solved they're going to be domestic satellites up there. How many miles they are capable in the technology is here of carrying up to 80 channels each satellite. I am indeed the technologic technology is there so they can put enough power in those so they can beam directly into the home. Not if that ever comes about or you do anybody that wants to is rent a channel for however long he wants all day an hour. Probably there's a minimum like a telephone company three minutes or something and when that happens that will be all news channels. That's a long way off. It is a little terrifying to broadcasters because it's short short short circuits the stations. but rather than cable where Cable is very difficult and expensive to build. I think that it is more likely given the solution to the political problems that you're going to get a multiplicity of. A voice is as you doing and radio now I never will be something for every almost every taste. And you choose what you want. The guy before we finish. I wonder if you could address yourself to the role of objectivity plays in the production of news on CBS, but our traditions in CBS News first started back in the days when we were boycotted by the wire services at newspaper in system. So they began to recognize that we were competition. It has been a Cornerstone of CBS News policy going back to the thirties that objectivity is a goal that Why we recognize that every News man who is worth his salt is going to have opinions. And I hope strong opinions cuz he's a citizen and he comes across an awful lot of facts and there's no way of making yourself a eunuch. But what the guys are paid for my definition of what a professional journalist is is to recognize that he has his biases and try to present oral sides as fairly as he can despite. His bias is now I recognize that this is what might be called an unnatural act because it's going but it's it's so tempting to tell her just you are way and just include those facts would sure help your particular interests. but as long as there are only three networks and as long as there are limitations, I don't see how people can make an informed judgment unless we tried to give them all the relevant flag facts including the ones that are very distasteful to us all the significant viewpoints including the ones we hate cuz the essence to me of a working democracy is that people are free to make their own judgments and there's no use that making their own judgments unless they do it Island informed basis as possible. It isn't really a judgment if all you hear is one side. Oddly enough. This is a relatively modern notion. If you go back to the American Press at the time the 1st Amendment was written that gun all the way through the 19th century. You can hardly find a fact in any newspaper. They really were Advocates. They were opinion journals. And I think opinion generals today as they always have a great place. I think it's very important. As I said before you you should read the new Republic or the nation or human events to the National Review and they They make no claim to objectivity. But you have a choice there an opportunity to look at the conflicting views. If you choose since there are only three networks. It's much more constrained. And so as long as they are. As long as you're part of the general, press let me put it that way. I think that objectivity is terribly important and it's basic to our profession. I find it very distressing that so many of the young people who are coming out of Journalism schools or else with and come. To me and talk to me about jobs. I talkin not in terms of reporting but talking in terms of taking the public by the hand and letting them see the light. Trouble is whose light? And how do you get an informed public and I I think it's unfortunate that journalism schools are disqualifying so many of the potential people in the job market by not bringing it home to him that if they are Advocates there are a lot of places in the general, press where they can't work. now I recognize that objectivity is so difficult and so unnatural as I said that or you can do is aim for it. And if you aim for you'll get there in 75 or 80% of the cases if you don't cry at all you'll never get there. We fail in the number of cases. Go back in history on find time and time again most things that I wish we had included that we didn't you can always find a better way to do that. We're working under a deadline that we're not writing history. We're not even writing the best of first draft of history and we found a number of cases, but if you don't try you're going to fail in more cases Now, I wonder why I've had many arguments with my young friends which includes all the friends of all of my children and they say that's a cop-out and perhaps it is but as long as we have the kind of society we have as long as the other charges of everything other people in a democracy. It seems to me to be the best way Richardson president of CBS News during a recent visit to the Twin Cities answering questions at a session sponsored by the school of Journalism and mass communications at the University of Minnesota. I'm Connie Goldman