When's kick it or comment was made with life? Why are people so upset for the women's movement because some people violent chance and I also agree with it. I take a quick violent change.Duffy's bring on good food and all of us. He's made 10 years of our life. We can't Costco's 10 years away the start of something new we can try to work within the individual. I have four boys think the older ones were babysitting the young ones and I have left a note this morning cuz they all were sleeping and the youngest one got up and read the note and then ask an older when where is Mom said she said the little one said she can't go to college. You have to stay home and work women being Housewives and mothers, you know, just Housewives and mothers and I was feeling feeling that we were putting ourselves down and I do think this is the role of society today. We're putting that those two rolls down and I was feeling a little paranoid even about you know, enjoying my role because this is the roll one up right now and the role I've chosen Statements that I made over the radio sometimes against the Equal Rights Amendment. Was there women talking at a women's mini college program? He'll get Fergus Falls Community College on women searching for self sponsored in part by the Minnesota Humanities commission and the AAUW. The opening comments there indicate a changing attitude about women and the women's movement. I'm Bill simmering in Maryland prices here with me today. We both attended the conference and will be bringing you some highlights of that presentation. It's no longer the province of Gloria Steinem and Betty Ford an is it Marilyn? Are you aware that to yes and really looking for answers. These were primarily women who are Housewives and are in search ready for self and illustrating radio. What the women's movement is about a treaty is a a development of self-awareness and of your own rights and responsibilities and it as an individual known as a person rather than playing out a prescribed role that Society has been laying down for centuries. Really. I think a lot of women are defensive about their position is Housewives. You heard the comment. I'm just a housewife and so they're trying to find some fulfillment in that role and I think it would be too bad if a new movement came along and make someone feel Somewhat inadequate because they were a housewife but we also need to look at other options that are open for women. You heard a lot of discussion about other possibilities and choices that women could make and I think this is what is interesting now for women to be examining where they are this we heard the woman saying that she doesn't want to throw over 10 years of her life and invalidate that Rudy and for something ready clean and yet there is a need for more fulfillment as as people tour in as a children grow up and so on. Is also the longer life expectancy for women and we have to deal with our value system and what we are going to do with the talents, which we have. I find it a very interesting and partly confusing subject as well as an area of creative thinking and doing we hope during this hour that you'll also find some new stimulating ideas as you listen to some of the interviews and discussion of women and the changing Society. Maryland one of the traditional roles that women have had that I guess in society is thought of his kind of a civilizing influence on the on the man and you talked with the Gretchen crater about that. Yes. She was there to discuss the Pioneer Woman and some of her struggles for identity and did it I found in a very fascinating Way by slides and and discussion and I asked her from historical Viewpoint what she considered to be the civilizing mission of women as people no longer lived on the farm as the man worked away from home the home became seen as a refuge from the world and there was developed a special set of ideas about what women want to do and what women ought to be. That's the idea woman's sphere that I talked about. And bound up with that was the idea that the outside world was cruel difficult and that the Woman's real job was to provide an island of Serenity to which the man could come home at the end of the day that the outside world was. It was rough tough and immoral but the woman threw her special moral qualities would a part of her children their proper set up the proper moral code so that they could resist the Corruptions of the outside world in and then she could be a shining example for her husband so that he wouldn't be too much of a crook outside. And those are the kinds of qualities that are those are the kinds of things that are meant by you know, the civilizing mission. Well, the civilizing mission Out West becomes a double it becomes that and it also becomes simply in terms of the amenities of life that you know, we're supposed to be clean and decent we're not supposed to be Muddy and dirty and the animals are supposed to live in the bar not in the house and things of that sort sort the civilizing mission for a woman in the sky statement all those things that it meant in the East plus a few more and it meant for her third of supportive role your thing. I supported position of being Serene for her husband and a moral guideline for her children, do you think that women nowadays are rebelling against that kind of role of them are at least that's not there many many women for him. That's not enough anymore. I don't think that many At least college-educated women for example are going to be content with being told that as long as they preserve high moral standards in and keep the children clean and all that is there that they should receive fulfillment from that. I I think that that many women are rebelling against that but you also see some of that same attitude recurring for example, I mentioned the business about the women's suffrage movement. Saying that if women voted they would bring a new morality and so on into politics and clean it all up. Well, of course that has never happened but there still women now very tough in politics. They're not all talking that way. I mean some of them are talking so women are just like man in the sense that that they they are trying to learn about power and how to use its own but there are also women who say we believe that women have something special to contribute to politics of a moral nature of a nurturing nature not turning. I think you get on Dangerous Ground. Once you start doing that once you start talking about women's special qualities too many of those special qualities that are only seen is being manifested under the old roof tree beside the Cradle. How about the quality of Courage that we see in The Pioneer Woman? Is that something for which the modern woman should be? Looking yes goodness. It certainly takes courage to do any kind of pioneering and I think that it's well, as I tried to suggest also, I think it takes it takes courage on the part of both men and women in at a time in which were really being confronted by changing roles and changing expectations of each other and I would like to see I guess a greater recognition on the part of lots of people that that those things take a heck of a lot of courage and perseverance just like Mom going out and digging the potatoes did a hundred fifty years ago. That was dr. Gretchen Crider president of the women historians of Midwest author and teacher The Young and the old May I have a good man? There is a woman. behind evergood, man. There's a woman. That I have in mind. And made me what I am. Is behind every good man, there is a woman. We're going to see the fruits of your labor and all and that's going to be a great satisfaction with for boys. Not even. I wonder what their lives are going to be later on. And right now they seem to have bright prospects and I am the whole High Hopes or Peach one of them the only place Well, I didn't have a substitute to offer but foolishly at that time. I brought the Woman's Club and I was on the committee to serve and I said to do that I have to serve and here I lost a good month or two months salary. She was sick with the illegal for you to teach after you work full time. They were amended a drooling after a while. She said we teach them our little girls. Some little on that, you know what you can do this and you can be this and you can and then they reach to be a senior in high school and they have accomplished good grades and so forth and then I get out into the working world that they get into college and they are very shocked and I think this is the hard thing for maybe that's why there is some bitter feelings are the some of the negative things. You know that it happened. I suppose. I haven't felt them quite as much as anyone else because I think I sort of knew my role was going to be a housewife and mother, you know, That is amazing. When we hear people talking about the fact that it was illegal to work to teach when a person married. We really have come some distance since that time Heavenly Maryland certainly there still a lot of attitudes and there are some laws that have been prevented women from progressing further in the home objecting to things like the Equal Rights Amendment and feeling that it's going to be an inhibiting thing for women and we heard at this conference that instead of being inhibiting it is going to expand women's opportunities are the attorney Alan dressel Hills of Minneapolis speak on human rights for women. She has been a member of the Minneapolis human relations commission and help to outline some of the legal action that has been taking place on behalf of women in Wisconsin Supreme Court. refuse to admit women to the practice of law Sometimes I think some of the things I'm doing that the court probably wishes that they could do that today. But it ain't they said in their opinion. We think the common law of wise and excluding women from the profession of law the profession Anders largely into the well-being of society heaven knows we don't enter into sometimes and to be honorably field exacts the devotion of life. Now, you see the law of nature Destin's and qualify swimming for the bearing and picture of children and for the maintenance of the homes and any lifelong calling according to the court for women that's inconsistent with these sacred duties of the Sexes were departures at from the order of Nature and when voluntary treason against it 1875 was almost a hundred years ago. Frankly, the attitudes that are expressed in that Court opinion are not terribly far from the surface today. Their Express today, however, usually and more subtle and sophisticated ways. However, recently John Fisher of the general electric companies Energy Systems Department. Blame the women's movement for the energy crisis claiming that the growth in energy consumption has been unusually great as women move into the workforce. He also contended that the rest of the rest of energy consumption is accelerated by the affluence that comes from two jobs in a family. I don't know how he accounts for the fact that two-thirds of the women in the labor force are single widowed divorced or married to man earning less than $7,000 a year. In fact, most women are in the labor force because not because they are liberated but because they or their families would go hungry if they were not. you see because women have historically been denied job opportunities decent inequitable wages and chances for advancement because And someone told this to me once you can always get married and leave us. Or you may become pregnant and quit. You don't really need this job like a man does. Or course the classic. How are your children going to be cared for while you work? Traditionally in the law. In fact women have had a status about equal to that of idiots and lunatics. But lately we've had a lot of improvement in that area. We have a lot of nice new laws that say a lot of very nice things about women's rights in the employment Market. And even the most die-hard opponent of women's lib, the one who says my wife doesn't need to be liberated. She likes keeping house for me. Even this fellow will admit that it women are doing equal work. They all be paid equal wages. And when a divorce hits one of these fellows you can bet he realizes that it's important that women be able to make decent wages in the labor market because if she isn't if his wife isn't able to make a decent wage, he's hit with a high child support obligation possibly alimony and after all he's stocked with all the bills and she gets the house and she gets the kids. We never talk about fathers losing their kids want to talk about mothers losing their kids. So they're in that situation. We begin to see the importance. of decent wages in Dayton opportunities for women in the labor market one of them are prophetic comments made in 1875 in that particular decision and I didn't read till you've mentioned that had to do with the question of whether the word person in the 14th Amendment included women according to the court in 1875. That was a ridiculous notion. And frankly the court hasn't come to awfully far in that concept today. That's why we have to deal with things like the Equal Rights Amendment. Because even today the court is not attributed to women the right to be a person within that constitutional provision in the same way as it has other groups that have been challenged. 14th Amendment says that states cannot deny two persons within its jurisdiction the equal protection and due process but the 14th Amendment is always been interpreted to mean that you can't you can't have can't have classifications that are being denied equal protection when the classifications however can there can be however it reasonable classifications who are treated differently and that won't be a denial of equal protection women sex is always been a reasonable classification race is a suspect classification and therefore not reasonable unless some really amazing thing is shown but sex that's usually been a reasonable classification and it is not inherently suspect. And we have for Supreme Court Justices now who finally come around to say it's about time the 14th Amendment treated women in the same way. You're treated sex-based classifications in the same way. They treated Race Face, but the 4 is not the majority of the court. So we still need a thing called the Equal Rights Amendment. Equal Rights Amendment is a very simple little statement 24 words says reads as follows equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or Abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex. To keep things in that one is under the law and that means we have to add has to have something to do with loss equality of Rights not to be denied on account of sex that's under the law. The other thing is it's by the United States or by any state that's public action. That's not private action. You and I can continue to treat men and women differently private dealings are not affected by the Equal Rights Amendment. Now we have it has been ratified in Minnesota and although there's a lot of backlash and there's been a feeble attempt to resend the ratification here in Minnesota. It's highly unlikely that you'll be rescinded and the main concern is getting the last five states think it's 5 that we need to ratify to make it a constitutional amendment. There are while we're on that subject. There are some fears that I think should be probably laid to rest. I think when we think about the Equal Rights Amendment a couple of things you have to keep in mind one is at the Equal Rights Amendment. Is primarily the basic intent in in an effect of that amendment is going to be an expansion of Rights. Not a restriction. It's not it's not an inhibiting thing. It's an expanding thing. It's an opening off of opportunities. That's what the whole woman's movement is talking about. That's what the whole human rights human rights movement that this is a part of is talking about opening up rights in options and opportunities for people not cutting them off not not saying to anyone that you that you can't can no longer choose this option that you've always been forced into. Do, you know that you have other options that are there the other thing we have to keep in mind that the Equal Rights and any any group of people Who is looking for new rights as got to realize that they're going to have to accept responsibility and the Equal Rights Amendment is going to require women to accept some responsibility that they have an accepted before it's also going to require differing changing and responsibilities for men because it's it it's a readjusting but along with any rights that people ask for their there are responsibilities as like the 18 year olds got the right to vote. And now they've got the right to support themselves are the responsibilities in fact Women with with equal rights will have the same responsibility for the security of our country as necessary through whatever National Defense efforts as as men have always had. And that's not necessarily so bad. We have given men veterans who are predominantly man a great number of benefits to compensate them for their taking on the responsibility for the security of our country. And the implication to us women who have not been required to accept his responsibilities is really that we just aren't important enough citizens to take on those responsibilities, and we really stopped to think about it. We shouldn't we shouldn't let that implication occur. We have to remember that even in Wartime something to 80 to 90% of the military jobs are supportive jobs. They're not Frontline battle jobs their jobs that are exactly the same as Jobs performed in the civilian is society. Second we have to remember that no one is ever going to require out of any kind of Equal Rights Amendment or other law require people to do things if they're not physically capable of doing we're not going to send pregnant women to the front lines any more than we're going to send someone who's hurting is about to to rupture to the front lines because they're not going to be physically able to do so not because of sex for that see we're not going to do we're not going to send people into jobs that they're not physically able to do under the Equal Rights Amendment or without it. So a lot of the bugaboos a lot of the hysteria over what's the Equal Rights Amendments going to do in the military? I think we have to put in that respect it and we also have to put in perspective these preferences these benefits these values that have accrued to man through their statuses veterans. given the absolute Veteran's preference laws which are about to be that are being re-examined and should be that's just one benefit and we talked about we have medical benefits of hospitals that are available. We have insurance benefits life insurance and Provisions and we have an exceptionally fine educational benefits and with the recent changes in the law that improve the veterans benefits a veteran can get Beyond his high school, which you can also get it too expensive of the government's who is better Instinct Beyond his high school. He can get something over $15,000 worth of educational benefits. Calculated by a friend of mine who works with veterans in Council that can have they can change their program a couple of times. They have 17 years to take these benefits. They can get $260 a month before they go to school in the thousand dollars a year for their tuition. That's a lot of benefits and it's a very valuable benefit. When you think of the of the people moving out of the poverty pockets in the opportunities that the military service is always provided not to mention Athletics have always provided for young man to move out of poverty. There is no reason in the world that we shouldn't desire those opportunities for women also. so we have to look at that military thing in an objective and balanced manner another area that where we're concerned about that the opponents of the equal rights are concerned about is the area of protective labor legislation and protective labor legislation, which is legislation designed to protect only one sex is pretty much a dead issue now anyway, It's all been pretty much struck down by the Bay by the laws against discrimination in employment. And generally you see generally the labor movement has made working conditions so much better for everyone that the only real value of these protective labor legislation in recent years has been the value it has in keeping women out of some of the higher pay jobs over you can have that job because you may have to lift over 35 pounds that's against the law or you can't have that job because you have to work over 40 hours a week sometimes and so we have to give that to a man who can have it or you can't work that job because it's a night job and you were barred from allowing women to work at night because of protective labor legislation accepted women can work as Char women and clean up the offices at that kind of thing. That stuff is pretty much gone. Now the point of it is the ultimate point of the Equal Rights Amendment approaches it in under the Equal Rights Amendment. That kind of legislation has to be examined for its real social value. And if in fact we are to protect people from lifting more than 70 pounds without some kind of help shearling men ought to be protected from that too. Especially when you consider the high incidence of job of time lost from employment from by man suffering hernias, which in fact is higher than the number of hours lost from employment from women's pregnancies. So you see perhaps we've been all wrong and protecting only women anyway equal rights as if it's a good piece of legislation and it's a valid protection. It's got to be offered to both sexes. It's got to be available to both sexes. okay, we're also not going to there a lot of other smaller matters that people have raised and been concerned about that. The Equal Rights Amendment is not going to have such an adverse effect on and I'm sure you're okay. You're already aware of those. The thing that I think is going to the law that I think is going to really shake the system perhaps more than any other is the Equal Pay law. That law is the oldest legal weapon in the area of sex discrimination. It was passed in 1963. And at that time it Exempted from its Provisions the professional administrative executive Personnel in 1972 on July one that law was expanded to cover really all employees. the Equal Pay law makes it illegal to discriminate in wages for people who are performing equal work on the basis of sex. Now, it doesn't cover the minorities racial discrimination that covers only sex discrimination. We can already see the impact is that law is making Rutgers University just was ordered to pay or just conciliate its $375,000 in back wages for women. Northwestern Northwest Airlines is appealing a case because on equal pay because among other things the Equal Pay requirements of that decision will cost them. They estimate 24 million dollars. AT&T has paid several hundred thousand dollars in correcting salary inequities for their management Personnel throughout the United States. I know someone for example who's got who got in $400 a month raise following their job analysis and restructuring and she said there were men that she was working with who would not get a raise for five years until women salaries risen take makeup that inequity equal pay is is is is a strong and effective way of getting at discrimination right where it really makes a difference in the pocketbook. Even our our Minnesota state college system is dispersing and in their across-the-board affirmative action adjustment something over $150,000. And they haven't begun the process. They had in my opinion between you and me. It's going to be expensive now the guidelines for analyzing equal pay. AR describing the work in terms of the equality of skill effort and responsibility required and a similarity of working conditions under which the work is performed. It is necessary to scrutinize the job is a hole and look for characteristics of the jobs being compared over a full work cycle. The Equal Pay standard does not depend on job classifications or titles but on job requirements and performance. The emphasis is on job content. You analyzed it was respected the skill needed as for example, the educational level experience level the effort. That's the measure of physical or mental exertion needed and the responsibility and the difference in responsibility must be more than just a minor difference in order to justify the higher salaries. traditionally the analyses of salaries and wages and comprehensive reviews have have their fairly detailed and they really involve a substantial restructuring reanalyzing of the job itself and an objectifying process of the requirements of the job that kind of a process has ramifications for for recruiting and hiring in structuring the jobs. That will be helpful to us in all in the whole area is employment. So when it's done when it's done thoroughly and completely and well it has a great potential to affect our job job structures. and the duties the nice thing about equal pay is it's essential Simplicity and inherent morality. They're just it's just really fun to say after all you need to find it. Most people of course can't object to that that concept the problem. However comes when they have to define the equal work and that's where we find people slipping out and saying what women really aren't do it quite the same work as mint. Hannah Coursey obstacle to it is this reluctance to really pay over and is incredible sums of money. But the lies there is going to be awfully hard for anybody to get that repealed in the Slowdown that that process that's moving towards equal pay. You have been listening to Ellen dress while he was an attorney for Minneapolis speaking on human rights for women after talked. I asked her about the underlying causes of sexism. I think frankly that that the crucial thing is he is economics and the economics of the situation. Forces those in power to want to stay in power and forces those who are not in power to be seeking it particularly in America where we're at economic power is is power and lack of economic power is is nothing is oppression. And that's true of all the disenfranchised classes in order to gain some of that power. It's necessary for some to give it up to me. That's where the rub comes. Yeah, it's necessary to give it up. But I think not nearly that ultimately I don't see this as is meaning that we give up quite as much as those who have it now think they have to give up. Some years ago. There was a study done in France many years ago study done in France as to what the effect would be on the gross national product if women were given equal rights. And in fact, it was shown that the gross national product would probably increase by a fairly significant percentage. So I keep trying to keep her perspective on it that we're not just temporarily it's a it's a displacement and it's disruptive and it's and it's taking away that over the long. It's got to be an expansion maybe not an expansion enough to include everybody at the level that we're that those were in power have it now, but it's it it is in the opening of options is going to I think expand the economy and create a wider larger base for everybody to share so that didn't the long run. I don't think it's a severe disruption or disadvantage for people as being power as it looks like it might be in the short run the resistance to the women's movement would indicate that it's also affecting manada at a fairly deep psychological level sense of self that they have and it may not be just economic in that case. O'hare's no question about it the Deep psychological effects of having to share their power with women or incalculable. We meet him in just ways that leave us generally frustrated. Is it's it's a rare and wonderful thing to find a man who just can sense the frustration that we're going through. Because I don't by the radicals who who say the deep down. No, man can never relate to women on an equal basis because she always knows he's physically stronger. I don't find that a persuasive statement, but I can understand the frustration that leads women to that radical to that radical of perspective. it's it it's hard for me as a woman to understand the psychological sense of being a man of somehow knowing somewhere down in the deepest recesses of my mind and heart that I'm always going to be superior to at least half of the population by virtue of my anatomy and on the other hand. I find it incomprehensible and very frustrating that I have to deal with some with men who have that feeling way down in the bottom and that and that they are looking at me somehow knowing that that I'll never be quite as good as they are because of Because deep down they know that I couldn't be Some women go the other direction so deep down. No man can never be your equal to me because snowman can never bear a child and that's an in years and years ago. There were cultures where that where that was worshiped. And where the people who could do that the class women who could do that were considered the superior beings, but that thing and I don't know who you is you ever get rid of that because we it's we're not going to change your physiology and God knows we don't want to and no one really wants me and not to be men or women not to be women. I certainly don't so that frustrating. I think we just have to learn to deal with an accommodating recognize it honestly for what what it is. The idea of equality has been around for centuries really and yet it's just now that we're beginning to deal with it in a practical real way, isn't it? Yes, I would agree with that. We still have we don't know what it is when we go to foreign countries and say we're fighting for you for equality for all people in your country and freedom, and we don't know and they look at us and say what's that and why would we want it and they look at it for very practical at least he's so what give me something to eat? I'm hungry. And to some extent many of the people that are looking at the women's movement, especially those minority women in the ghetto and the poor and the win white women in the ghetto who are really disenfranchised. They're not going to care about all these equal equality Concepts. Either has to give me something to eat cuz I'm hungry and certainly running parallel to this is the decentralization of of institutional power and more participation in in various aspects of organizational life. So are we we are talking about power than aren't we distribution of powers of powers and redistribution of responsibility for the power. The decentralization of the power structure is going to mean that the people who have who have been comfortable and secure and taken care of by the power structure have to work in it. There's there's there's a there's a there's a good logical reason for people being resistant to the women's rights are any even the blind to the minority rights movement? Because to the extent that they were in fact surviving under the other system, they had much less responsibility for their survival and if there's a certain amount of security in that there's a lot of frustration but fit but for people who are a little lazy and we all are there's a certain amount of security in that. So if you're up you're conflicted and and and their people resisting it because her how are they more secure and then You know where you belong knowing where you belong can be a very secure thing. I remember a black female friend of mine who said growing up in the South was a very comfortable thing. We didn't have it. It really wasn't that bad because we knew where we belong to and we kept in our place and we knew what was expected of us the very secure thing in the ultimate extreme you find people who are our only who can only survive in that kind of very structured setting and then you have a whole spectrum of course of people that me more and more and more frustrated with that that definition how do you account for the fact that this is occurring at this time? Is it just that the institutions became May be abusive of the power or are it became dehumanizing? The educated as a as a class of people so that their more people will become aware of their disenfranchisement. I think it's because of the the communications the mass communications in the fact we know what's going on around us and we're more informed of that. It may even be something astrology astrological are those who have those theories it may I think probably did our economic status that we live in creates an environment where it's more possible for it to happen. Clearly it freeze more people from from menial chores so that they can think more about their state and position in life than just a multitude of reasons. Why why it's going on right now. I think that the legal structure has developed in weave with understood or not means laws evolve and in the analysis of the way, they Define evolves and I think that's an evolving processing and then it's time is coming. We have some setbacks now and then but generally speaking we're we're beginning to interpret our constitution in and very Humane ways Ellen dress with Hughes Minneapolis attorney and member of the Minneapolis Commission on human relations. Minority on this kind of maybe I'm being selfish about, you know producing a child and he having these selfish feelings about wanting that they didn't catch me the most important thing at the point in having that child is loving it and holding it and feeding it and getting up in that it just don't mind it at all. He does it once in awhile or did but I always had to get up to see if he was holding it right and make sure the bottle before my very eyes. A dominating maybe a lot of problems stem from feeling guilty. And whose purpose is to feel guilty. Is it Saturday is it man or is it ourselves with the little neighborhood of Spectra be as half the population has been yellow the family working and has had leukemia would they still be the population of the little knittery? I don't think that are really a tidy housekeepers when the women in the neighborhood want to play cards together while we'll all take our babies and a babysitter. What we're trying to do is to prove to herself that I JavaScript well by calling us home maker. What I do is make a mistake with you do sometimes I say nothing and then somebody I'll give me a knife. I think my influence on my children at those early ages is the best influence. I really do like the I think I must really feel that that's kind of a eagle thing. But I really think that what I want my child to be like it's just maybe what I want for that child. We've got something to give in trying to teach an influence our children that we're working for a better world. The only way to do that. Get to be home and teach your children. Don't do that. I didn't realize just how young we impressed on our children the male and female dahlias and how young girls are treated different than young boys. And I think that will be something that'll stick in my mind because I have two children that are at the age where I imagine, it could make a lot of difference in how they were handled. Are overview RI side effects a lot of how we you know, how we see ourselves made Rolls. It's impressive that stuff a lot of weather. We're satisfied in the world that we have. He liberated. I'm happy being a housewife and I've enjoyed I enjoyed being a mother and my children and I think my kids went to my grandmother's or my parents for the week and I came home last night and nobody was home. Not even the dog and I was terribly Lonesome and I needed those two days away to really find that I was content in my life, you know. Well, I I like a dependence of being a husband and a wife and working on things together and I don't want to live totally dependent. Independent myself. I think it's going to take two of us to raise children and integer go into things and I I guess I don't want my own job and my own money and my own car and my own checking account. We have heard women talking with women about what it is to be a woman and I think it would be kind of need to talk to men about what they think. It is to be a woman. There aren't any men consciousness-raising groups around or any conferences on men searching for self. And I think it's unfortunate Veni that I think it's inevitable that men will have to be discussing some of these very issues as their roles are forced to change with the change in women's roles women find this whole thing threatening to themselves particularly as Homemakers. We heard that in the discussion, it's almost as though they don't want to face up to open and adoptions. Yes, and clearly I shouldn't speak for women, but I think that certainly men find the whole woman's movement very threatening because it is a change in any kind of change in the basic structure is difficult to deal with and involves a man self concept in traditional roles that we've been living with his we heard during this program, perhaps the attitudes are the things that we really have to work with now we heard that legal things are now on the books and being enforced and so on but it brought it does get down to Attitudes in between men and women just as one woman was commenting that she didn't really trust your husband to take care of the child and perhaps he doesn't trust her to go out in the world of work and that's where the future lies is in changing some of those things and I think group such as this are making some steps in that direction. And when we're talking about relationships, I imagine we're talking about person-to-person relationships, but the theme of the conference was searching for sale. So there must be something about relationship with yourself to write and I think Maryland that's perhaps worried or we have to begin the car. Send me women began by talking about their role and their relationship to others and now they're finding their search for self is in conflict with others. Yes, but that seems to be the real problem comes And what about that matter of dependence? There was some discussion about that some women don't want to be dependent and some women want to be dependent seems like most people needed a little something right, but doesn't our whole society push toward and Independence and yet I guess you're right. I remember discussion that day and Fergus on the value of the extended family is over against the nuclear family and the extended family which consisted of grandparents and aunts and uncles I think is an example of a greater interdependence for the nuclear family is an example of Independence. People in that family have to stand alone and perhaps out in Suburbia unsupported by other members of their relationship and maybe not even knowing their neighbors very well that puts a much greater strain on the nuclear family. Doesn't it? It's that makes your family's got to be all things to all the people in it at all times has gone for long periods of time and the children are not very supportive of her and she begins to wonder what it is. She's really doing and where her values are the kind of guilt that some of the women were talking about it. I'll be leaving the family to work and one woman. I think I'm out of that. She was surprised that the children really didn't respond negatively to that in time. And there was a study done here in Fargo recently on the fact that a working mother is a much better role model for the daughter and their daughter is a higher achiever with a working mother than with a non-working with her. If they keep the constant of the same education level in summer. And that brings we've been talking about Housewives, but that working woman idea brings to mind. The whole fact that so much of our labor force is made up of women who have to support a family and that's a totally other area which we should be talking about to write most of the women that I think we heard here and that were attending the conference were women living in a family situation and and we're not working. We've been talkin about the theme of a mini college conference sponsored by the Fergus Falls Community College and the Fergus Falls branch of the AAUW with funds supported in part by the Minnesota Humanities commission. It was called women searching for self. I think just the frustrations of being a housewife now and then, you know just really get to a person and they feel like this is not for me. This is not what I want, but they come here and they realize that this is okay. What I'm doing is all right, I I'm happy being at wife and I'm happy having children, but I also Enjoy the freedom of being a housewife because we do have freedom there we can come and go we can plan our day as it is. I don't want to be have to answer to someone all the time, but I'm happy enough to answer some of the time if you're the person that you are. And doing what you choose then you're literate resume.