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KEVIN MCKIERNAN: This morning, Father Manhart testified that the church was taken over February 27, 1973, shortly after 8 o'clock in the evening. He stated that he was bound overnight in the church's balcony and placed under guard until the following morning. He was then taken to the home of Clive Gildersleeve, one of the operators of the trading post in Wounded Knee.

There, he testified, Dennis Banks informed him that he was something like a prisoner of war, but less than that, and was free to go. Father Manhart remained another day and then left March 1. He went into Pine Ridge, 16 miles away, and returned to Wounded Knee with a member of the CRS, That's the Community Relations Service department of the justice department.

Arguments this morning between the government and defense counsels broke out over the legalities of terming the church occupied. Defense Attorney William Kunstler maintained that if the Sioux treaty of 1868 is recognized, then the church was not occupied legally-- illegally, that is.

US attorney R.D. Hurd objected to the mention of the treaty in front of the jury. Trial Judge Fred J. Nichol warned Kunstler that he was not going to allow the treaty question, which incidentally is yet to be ruled officially admissible in this case to be brought into every objection. In any case, the linguistic problems were resolved, and the government termed the occupation, quote, "an incident," unquote. And Kunstler said that he would call it "an historic incident," quote unquote.

The government then elicited testimony from Father Manhart relating to the alleged theft and damages incurred at the Catholic church. The defense objected strongly to the mention of theft from the church or damage to it, which they claim is not material to any count in the indictment. Judge Nichol this morning then dismissed the jury, and he allowed the opposing counsels to argue that point.

Kunstler then rose to maintain that even if there were damages to the church or theft from it, which the government might use to support a charge of civil disorder, there was no proof that defendants Means or Banks were legally involved. The government maintained that Means and Banks conspired to create the civil disorder charged at Wounded Knee. And therefore, it was and is irrelevant whether they themselves committed the alleged acts.

Well, Judge Nichol then decided this morning that he would allow answers about damage to the church itself, but not theft from it. Father Manhart later testified that he saw trenches that were dug around the church as fortifications. He saw cement bags used to fortify the church doorway basement to protect the Indians from incoming gunfire.

He said that he was free to go on February 28, but stayed on and off until finally March 11, when he departed the village for the final time. He conducted Sunday mass at one point in the community hall in Wounded Knee. This afternoon, William Kunstler, one of the defense counsels, cross-examined Father Manhart's testimony.

Father Manhart testified that he felt the Indian religion was compatible with Christianity. He said that he didn't think that there were Pine Ridge Indians who wanted just the traditional Indian religion. Counsel, did you know that there are 163 Christian churches on the Pine Ridge Reservation representing 17 different denominations? Objection by the government overruled.

Answer, well, I suppose that my guess would be 42 churches, maybe more. How many in Wounded Knee? Father Manhart, four in regular use, one additional church used on a sporadic basis. Father Manhart testified that the Jesuits once owned all of the Sacred Heart Church land, plus the graveyard behind the church where Bigfoot's monument and grave lies. That's Bigfoot, the chief who is buried there in 1890.

Question from Kunstler, wasn't there a plan at one time to make the gravesite into a tourist attraction? Answer, not among priests. Not among us priests. Question, did you know that the grave contained some 300 bodies of Indians massacred by the 7th cavalry in 1890? Objection by the government sustained.

Question, isn't there a tourist sign near Wounded Knee in large black and gold letters which invites visitors to come into Wounded Knee and view the massacre site and the mass grave? Yes, there is. Question, did you ever make an effort to remove that sign? Father Manhart, no, I didn't put it there. There was an objection by the government, which was sustained, and no further questions along that line.

Question from Kunstler, is it one of your duties, Father Manhart, on Pine Ridge to attempt to convert Indians to Catholicism? Answer, part of my ministry is to share what I have. If you want to call that conversion, then all right. No man can persuade or convince someone of such a thing. And then Father Manhart said, in Wounded Knee, there are no non-Christian Indians.

Question, have you ever assisted or officiated at a conversion of a non-Christian Indian on Pine Ridge? Answer, only God can assist with conversions. Have you ever celebrated at any? No, none that I can recall. And then Father Manhart did say, however, that he had done so in cases of conversions of non-Catholic Christians to Catholicism.

Have you or your church taken any position favoring or opposing the Sioux Sun Dance? We take no position opposing it. Is the sun dance a pagan right? Asked Kunstler. The government objected, and the question of the objection was sustained. Question, do you know that your superior, the Rapid City bishop, has taken a public position condemning the sun dance as a pagan ritual? No, I did not.

Do you know that the Indian drum is a religious offering to the spirit world? Answer, well, to some, it might be so. Question, do you know that the Indian drum takes the place of the altar in your religion? Answer, some might interpret it that way. Father Manhart said that he was searched at Wounded Knee by the Indians there.

They took his wallet and car keys. They removed $1 from his wallet and then returned the wallet and keys. He said that his hands were bound for three hours, but this was the only period that he was so bound during the entire occupation. He was offered food, but he refused it. He was offered blankets and a pillow. He did accept those.

And then he said he slept until about 6:00 AM into the second day of the occupation. Then he was visited by three women, including a woman whose name was Rose Schatz. And then he said alias Rose White Butterfly. Kunstler asked him, why do you say alias Rose White Butterfly?

And then he testified that Rose Schatz and a man named Ben White Butterfly, residents of Wounded Knee, were living together but were not married, and they had children together. And then William Kunstler said, do you think that they're living in a state of sin? And he said, I can't answer that, and then something to the effect only in the eyes of God. But the government objected to any further questioning along that line.

As to the major question of hostages, the government, of course, is contended that these, Father Manhart, the Gildersleeves, other people in Wounded Knee, were prisoners. The defense has said that they weren't because they were free to go. This afternoon, under cross-examination, Father Manhart testified that an Indian girl called Father Manhart and other people hostages, but the Indians there censured her for using that term.

Dennis Banks said, according to Father Manhart, that the people were free to go. And he cautioned them not to roam around in the village in case less disciplined people might want to retaliate against them. He was free to go, but he made a decision to stay. This is according to Father Manhart.

Question, did you stay because you thought if you did not, the United States marshals would kill all the people in the village? Answer, Father Manhart then generally conceded that he felt his presence was, quote, "a living buffer," unquote. Father Manhart then testified that he didn't see anyone in Wounded Knee with automatic weapons, but that he heard, quote, "heavy automatic weapon fire," unquote, during a night firefight.

This led him to believe that marshals were set up in the hills. Now, this date was February 28 last year. Father Manhart said that he knew that armored personnel carriers were surrounding Wounded Knee. People told him to lie on the floor to protect himself from incoming gunfire. He and the other so-called hostages did so.

He said that he heard bursts of heavy automatic fire, quote unquote, "mixed in with smaller fire on the night of February 28." Father Manhart had told the FBI that every now and then, quote unquote, "machine guns would open up from armored personnel carriers surrounding Wounded Knee." Well, then the day's questioning ended with William Kunstler cross-examining Father Manhart on the symbolic significance of the sacred Sioux peace pipe.

SPEAKER: It sounds like Father Manhart is a reasonably important witness, Kevin. And he will continue tomorrow, I understand.

KEVIN MCKIERNAN: He will, and I think so because several of the indictments go to the alleged occupation of that church and the use of it for eating and sleeping quarters in Wounded Knee.

SPEAKER: And it was his church.

KEVIN MCKIERNAN: Yes, it was.

SPEAKER: OK, well, we'll be anxious to see what tomorrow's testimony brings. Kevin McKiernan, thank you.