As part of KCCM's Home for the Weekend series, this program examines the American family, with a focus on being a man. Various interviews and discussions on the varied definitions manhood and masculinity. Also includes musical segments.
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Welcome home for the weekend. Time to relax among friends and talk of things. We don't get around to during the week. But which affect our lives nonetheless. a man and a train etrian Enderman Hey boo, try to run as far and as fast as a cheetah. Go to man's not a train and a train is not a man. A man can do things that a train never came. Google the man that died of train run time It's guts. But it's so different. He still can go a long long way. Going across the country. where the train runs out of track it has to stop. But many miles from nowhere. And still keep going. a dream a beautiful dream HBO last week on home for the weekend. We talked with several women about how they do their roles as women today will be talking with men. I'm Marsha of are talking about men in that changing role Marty Robbins. Just saying about having a beautiful dream makes me a man. Well, there's a lot of things that traditionally have made us feel like men or women will be talking with a number of men today about what it means to be a man from their own point of view is very early, we heard last week from to seven and eight year old girls, but how early they learned about being girls. I had a chance to talk with three boys age 12 10 and 5 and they already had some pretty definite ideas. What kinds of things do you like to do when you go play? ride play Do you think that you like to do the same things that girls do? What do you play that's different? I plan but they don't play mother. How about you do you think the girls like to do the same things boys? Do you know what what what's different what are the girls doing? One of the boys do boys usually end up getting in trouble them girls. Never do. How do boys get in trouble messing around? Oh girls don't mess around. I don't like breaking windows and Wrecking bikes. What are the little girls that you know spend their time? And is it the same as as what you do? Little girls around here usually playing house. I'm usually just riding the little boys found her. Usually just riding around on their big wheels and Trikes and that do you like girls? Sometimes when don't you like them when they're smarter than I am. I see what you mean like in school or something. How does it feel when a girl is is it different than if a boy is smarter than you if a girl is? Yes, how is it different? Well. You can. you usually better than a girl and all the sports in that and then when it comes to Science or math or something the girls better newer? How old are you now? 12. Well see you when you get to be around 15 or 16. I guess you'll start getting interested in girl. What kind of a girl would you like to have for your girlfriend? 1 who like sports? Does she have to be smart? No, not really. This house like to do the things I like to do. What kinds of things do you like to do? ride bikes Go uptown. When you're at school and you're in gym class to the boys and girls do the same thing. Yeah are the girls as good as the boys? Yeah, does that ever bother you like? If a girl can hit a baseball better than you can't does that ever bother you? Yeah, how come boys are supposed to be better at Sports and girl who says I don't know. I think it's funny that that little boy I knew that he was supposed to be better than girls but he really didn't know who had told him that we always carry around to be and how it should be. I think that's one of the good things about that. The recent Liberation movement is that that one standard that everyone is supposed to adhere to his being broken down and people are thinking much more in terms of themselves as individuals, but there are still definite characteristics that help Define ourselves as men or women. Father Virgil O'Neal of MSC Newman Center discusses some of those characteristics he filled our basic to men. I think the difference between the Sexes as God intended. I think I think it's obvious. If you study the men are a little more aggressive. I think I think men are saying Oriental. I think they very easily and I forget to look at personal qualities. I think they're concerned about things. He tradition has been the breadwinner. I think studies will show that to that two women are more deaf to taking care of people in hospitals and taking the temperature in wrapping up wounds and it's sensing when the baby is ill or not. Well, or if they have it, I think there is something that's called woman's intuition should not be set aside. I think there are some some functions that a man can perform better than a woman. I think you know what it seems that men can go to war more reason why they went to Vietnam the last time but maybe if this this women's lib good takes on increase proportions, maybe the next War the the women will go up to the Fiji islands or wherever we have the next to. Police action Ms. Harry Truman refrigerant and I I think they're different but equal and I think they're psychologically different. I think you can you can discover often times by their writing that they are different. They they're more given to two details. then men are I remember visiting the Boeing plant in Wichita Kansas on time and they they told me they have women to thread all the little wires into the cockpit of the B-52 Bomber pictures 86 miles of electrical wiring and it had to have to have any tiny little fingers and they need a certain deafness of the Deft activity precise activity of the fingers of men do not have so I think it's it's dishonest to say that they are exactly the same. What does it mean to be a man in American society today? I think a man has to have a sense of Does he is is contributing? Something for the overall good of society and I think he he he has to know that he is is is creating something that he is building something. He's putting one brick on top of another break. So the end of his life he can see that he has created something or done something for the good of good of others. I think that we talked a man is the father God the father and went and God the father theologically as the Creator. And then the sun is the Redeemer of the world in the Holy Spirit is the sanctifier, but the father and the man. I just to be to be fully satisfied. must do his thing and that to he will only discover bike and Consulting his own talents his inclinations his possibilities his capabilities and Consulting with others what he can do in the way of some constructive valid effort for the good of others. He has to see his created something otherwise is the unhappy does he have to create something because he can't bear children. I don't know why this is necessary but not but I do know that The man is an immensely dissatisfied with himself. If he doesn't use his talents to create something in the community where there's a visible or invisible fruit for the community that that's an extraneous to himself. Now. This may be a god-given Arrangement or god-given need planted in him by God Almighty in view of the fact that the woman Bears the children of the child is often times satisfied with just doing that wears. The man is Never Satisfied just loving his wife. He has to have something Beyond of the person of his is his wife. His work is work fulfills him. Along with his wife and if his work is officially intriguing and engaging he doesn't even need a wife. There their many bachelors in the history of the world who lived alone and they were completely taken off with their work in the contributions made to society Newman Center. Call Ramana travel around the world. That's a hit right out of the 50s image of a man strike. You remember dancing to that music in about the seventh grade? And of course the lyrics didn't hit me at all. But but from my perspective I have now it seems like he's trying just a little bit too hard to be a man. He's he's got all of these kind of hyper masculine qualities of the two fists of iron and I can almost see him in the 50s or this t-shirt roll up to his shoulders and a pack of kools. I don't think he had a very meaningful relationship with any woman either. He says that every time he gets to like someone he hops into his car and travels around the world again, so he seems to be avoiding trying to get entangled with anybody in marked contrast with that imagery talk now with Mike Olson last week we talked with Mike's wife Alice about the role of women and we asked Mike if he had a male ideal in mind. Is he grew up or I'm sure I had that Some pretty set ideas. I course. I've always been interested in sports and athletic. So I've always had the athletic people have been my heroes. I suppose when I was young and I I was never really good at that place myself. I always wished I was and I tried to always played and I was I always I know as I grew up I always felt kind of a lot of times. Did feel inferior or something because I wasn't strong. I've never been strong, you know, relatively healthy, but not no muscle man or anything. But I'd I think I got rid of that fairly early and that's why I we've I think we've Allison dive. Tried to bring up our kids differently, you know without worrying too much about the sex stereotypes, you know, and cuz I think I realized quite a long time ago, maybe even I like to think even maybe before it was fashionable that that was a bunch of nonsense. It wasn't really necessary. Yeah, I carried around with in my head a lot and still do sometimes that idea that I was a 97 pound weakling and I wasn't as good. Did you have that feeling that one when you weren't good at sports it Somalia or less of a man? Actually, I mean I was always fairly competent at sports, but I didn't play football see and I went to Shanley what's right away. If you go to Shanley and you don't play football, you're in a little bit of trouble because that's the sport even though I played basketball and I was a relatively good baseball player is a kid, then I boil in all the other sports but that I never played football in is because I felt the G's my scrawny little body was going to get beat up too bad, you know basketball you had a chance, you know, you can get out of the way or something, but they got these big guys planning your own in football. And a hit on and all the other guys, of course, I lift weights and all this stuff and it really big arms and big chest and stuff and I had died. I mean, I was average I suppose I mean, I'm not it wasn't that I was really terrible specimen but but it was it was a little touchy. I just have fun on that you go off of for a while there but the fact that I did you know, it it helped I think I could have probably been in trouble that way but it helped that I was I mean like I did play varsity basketball and things like that. So I so I had a certain measure of satisfaction as an athlete they're in on it. Can I save myself respect yourself a little bit in the old way of having a stereotype role that he kind of pulled off the shelf and put on made life simple. Where does the identity come from now? It must come from within I guess. It is a we can't say. Well this is what men are supposed to do cuz there's no set rules. That's what what what is it? What does it mean to be a man? Anyway, I know how to answer this but I did watch that. I was watching the TV show yesterday and which I thought was really interesting CBS The Sports Illustrated TV show and they had about a ten-minute clip about the this ballet dancer Edward VIII a guy or something like that. I'm not sure some how to pronounce his name and they made the point that he is probably he very well might be the best athlete in the country this ballet dancer. I don't know how you define athlete but I mean, he's got the best control over his body and he's strong and he's graceful and everything, you know, and and in a interview at these ballet dancers and then one guy just said, you know how people have always thought the dancers were Sissy and then he just he said his exact quote was anybody thinks that is stupid. You know, they just don't know and I don't know if this has anything to do with answering your question, but it just seems to me like if you break down and rolls and forget about and get people to Forget that men have to be tough and that they have to be me and you know, and it seems to me all these good qualities that people respect like generosity. I need like people that are gentle and kind and nice. You just have to want. To be a nice person. I can good person rather than be a man whose aloof and I was able to not you know, he's not emotional to strictly logical and things like that. I just think you got it you get rid of that then and then but I don't know. I like I said, I don't know if that answers your ideas like that really talking about developing a full human being. Girl, man or a feminine woman. I mean you just got to forget that and then be up try and yeah be a human being a real person Michaelson of Fargo. Won't you tell him I'm up? What you want? Don't you tell me mama or what? You want me to? Rich Show video walking on the sea gadwal to see you. birds of every kind I'm just trying I'm just trying, I'm trying to I'm just trying trying to be a man. Sometimes it can then again, I think I can. That's all you see him. That's all. That is all right. You can have it if you understand you can have it if you are. It really is hard to find an identity whether a man or women, but I think with the women's Liberation movement from my point of view Marsha. It's kind of overshadowed the some of the problems that men have and finding her own identity and it is a difficult thing is still going to for all of us. I think it's certainly that the problem of a of a female identity has been much more completely articulated. I think men are just beginning to talk about their own rules. For example, Michael court has recently written a book called male chauvinism in how it works and I think we're going to be seeing much more discussion of male identity as a result of the women's movement. One of the groups that has an extra added dimension in defining their sexual role are any minority groups in the United States. There's been quite a bit of discussion in Black Culture about the role of male and female. There's several books. For example, the black woman, which is edited by Toni Cade and certainly Eldridge Cleaver and Soul on Ice talked about the emasculation of black men because they couldn't find work because of discrimination and that added a whole different problem to how black men and black women related to one another city to his we hear now from Eric Fontaine the president of the Concordia Student Association. Do you find that? That the images are really the same just a different color the difference in terms of my own life. One of them is that when I was growing up when Heroes were important I had few to look for that, you know, Shafter Superfly may be very good for someone born in 65, you know, because then they can go up grew up with that but there was no Shafter Superfly, you know, there was always clean Sidney Poitier in a for what he was with Sammy Davis what he was with Roy Wilkins, you know, but I don't think that completely answers your question the difference though, even now I think in perception is that The black folk hero is the trickster. He's the one who uses his mind to get out of a trap. He will fake you he will deceive you. He will sure key will do any number of things but he will always come out on top because he can do this myself some uses Force. There's a great difference now between the black militant and the black pimp. Both of those are strong folk hero images, but the pimp is the just a trickster whereas the militant is the bad Niger because he staying of telling the man that he will shoot him and he do this to me to do that fix the even bother to say what he's going to do. He just said, please text white women and put some on the card and make money. So I guess if you have these kind of images, what does that do to a man to be trained that the way to get ahead is always to exert power over someone else. Well, you know, hopefully you get to a point where you say is this for me as an individual rather than is this me as a man you go about defining your own manhood you go about and where I'm where I'm at, I guess. And once you kind of find these things out then you see well, maybe I need to learn some Cartesian. Maybe I didn't need to learn how to do some more manipulative things other than forcing kinds of things. Maybe my forte isn't physical strength. Maybe, you know, there's something else and I guess women reach that same process. But again, you know you go through these process because you realize the force isn't getting you what you want. You know somewhere there's a break and so you attempt if you you know still have this desire to be successful to find something else. Just tell the chief it goes. Well, there are certain qualities that if you mention them in relation to a man someone may accuse you of being effeminate such as sensitivity or emotional qualities, like crying or things like that. Do you find that men are becoming more? Maybe we could say full people. I don't know if it has a value judgment on it or not. You're the difference in the way that my brother grew up and I hear you know received very different. Kind of a I can't think of the word home training, you know, he he was brought up in that he could cry and it was fine when he got angry when things frustrating cry get it out of your system. If you live learn I wasn't and I have the hardest time attempting you no matter how frustrated and I can't you know, and now that I'm making it my own kinds of decisions and these kind of things I realize the benefit in it and yet I do know you can't do something you will learn early and yet I don't think my brother's any less of it, but he expresses himself emotionally, you know in a much higher level than I do. Probably ever will but I see nothing wrong ain't and again, I guess it it goes back to how you talk to. Look at things in the home. And and I'm basically is much more person. I am dating then it was William a male-female, you know, my sister is expected to be able to get into the same kinds of things we do. You gave a speech to the Kiwanis Club about women's Liberation. What did you say when you talk to them? It was men's Liberation. I was attempting to get them to realize. Play the very things that we say we want in a woman when we have them. They aren't really what we want. You don't you say you want a woman is extremely docile. He's always attractive every time you come home. She's looking like she just stepped out of a little magazine and she's there with the slippers in the pipe and you walk into the kitchen and the dinner is all cooked. Not only do we find it. This isn't true. And this is a bit more to expect. We finally become easily bored because then we come home from the office. We've had a hard day you doubled some problems and we say, you know, that stupid someone so did this and that and she says what are you know, I was telling you about it yesterday. Oh, yes, right and you look at any realize she doesn't understand the first thing you talking about you talk about Watergate. What is that? You talk about this you talk about then you realize he has no depth no understanding and yet she takes care of all your material needs it. So you begin to make some value judgments. Maybe it's better if she does have that job because it'll expand to you know, maybe my dad won't because maybe we'll be eating TV dinners, but I have something in mentally satisfies you and I guess you have to decide if that is what you want. Is that a challenge to me and if it is can I deal with it? And you know as for me I could almost care less if she could cook. If she if she couldn't, you know deal with me mentally that I really would have no time for you find that a lot of of men. Are you saying that men would rather have someone docile around or that if they think they do the find out they don't. I think that they think they do think they've been taught to I think Society perpetuated. This is what you want. She must be blind. She must have blue eyes. She must have certain measurements and the only acceptable substitutes are brunettes or redheads. Never Brown skins. You learn those kinds of things. She must be able to cook and I earn 5.4 lb of clothes everyday, you know, these kind of mundane images tab. If you really being honest with yourself and your own needs to realize it's so much more, you know, these are why you find these men who are successful successful Havanese relationships with their secretaries of satisfaction. You know, they're so used to having her cook them is why I need your tire made it, you know because that's really the roles he's relegated to and yet it comes a time when you really wish to talk and I guess the guys on always around that was Eric Fontaine president of the Concordia Student Association. Hello, this is the men's Rights Association. We all are nonprofit corporation formed for the purpose of obtaining equal rights for men, especially in domestic relations were bad law and downright criminal interpretation of marriage and divorce unsafe copies of the law are free to members with strong stomachs to help individuals contend with this discrimination. We provide a divorce and marriage avoidance Counseling Service overall movement influenced the courts educate the public we're not a group of amateur is in a mutual commiseration Society or a fly-by-night operation. It takes more than that to break the deeply institutionalized divorce racket anywhere that recorded phone message. Which is on the phone at St. Paul indicates that men are now becoming aware of their unique and distinct legal problems, and other kinds of needs for counseling and so Marcia talk with Richard Doyle a counselor with the men's Rights Association in St. Paul for your group The Men's Rights Association. It had the phrase men's Liberation on it. Maybe you could just explain to me what men's Liberation means to you. primary to implement restore and preserve rights the male sex, especially in domestic relations and crying with feeling men are discriminated against in these are What way? Well in Prime. treated in a discriminatory manner in their arrest trial judgement sentencing the newspaper coverage of it and in their treatment in prison, for example, if a man is looking into a home and a woman is arrested for window reverse the situation with the woman looking in again. The man is arrested for indecent exposure. That's the type thing we're talking about in the area of crime and then Domestic Relations, of course a man has a guest in his own home. He's electable at the whim of his wife. And or her lawyer and she is automatically by virtue of being female considered the best child custody. Mm. So with the children goes the house the money and the cats and dogs and everything else. They've accumulated over their life automatically treatment for version of chivalry. By people who primarily government officials who can't distinguish between ladies and women have any discussions about the roles of men and women. We don't have many discussions about that. However, we do have. Opinions on the subject and it's contrary to the popular fads explain about these days that men and women are all the same. We think that there's a big difference between the Sexes and Ziva difference in men are men and women women and out of both be very glad of it. There's nothing to be ashamed of him being a woman hard being a man. Do you have a general philosophy on the institution of alimony? Generally, I guess it. quit college to go to work to finance a husband's education straps up with him to medical school divorce and she was Not a terribly guilty party in the divorce. We would feel that she has an investment and his and his income is future income and that she could ever return from that we wouldn't even be great at that calling it The General you think I'll mourn is kind of a bad idea. In your phone answering message you you mentioned. Pregnancy counseling. Could you expand on that little bit? divorce counseling week When do the background of a situation make an analysis help the man arrived at the strategy of action? If it's something that requires an attorney Weaver from to a competent attorney who is not going to sell him off and not going over charge it and this is something that a man cannot find them. We do it through collective bargaining. primarily a contract to live without benefit of clergy and to assign in advance the Distribution of property for example if the couple should choose to buy a home. It would specify the the ownership. Normally. It's Honda's tenants in common with an undivided one-half to each party. We deplore the necessity of this but We're not to blame for the laws and the interpretation of the laws that is made this sort of a thing necessary. You seem to think then that anytime a man gets involved in. A legal situation that he's going to get into trouble. a video of woman do you think that that you and examples at women's groups has the National Organization of Women have common ground that you think you're working in the same direction? broad spectrum of women's liberation with the with the intelligence end of the spectrum. We're in 100% agreement and have been sometime. Our goals are identical to their we are both opposed to discrimination based on sex. In fact, we have joined the Coalition of groups. The only men's group in the correlation to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment here in Minnesota, and we feel that we were very instrumental in getting it. Cooperating have a lot of talks with these women in this particular group this Coalition and they're extremely impressive capable. very high Echelon of business so far. Drake well, thank you very much for talking with me. I've been talking with Richard Doyle of the men's Rights Association in St. Paul. genotype There's a lot of things about life janitor or to young to understand. You think live with me? It's like a beautiful clothes. I can satisfy, you know, but I won't always be this much a man. Janet there's not too much chance that we're going to make it through this life together. And the reason I'm leaving is there's more than 20 years between hours. Right now skies are blue. But later on we'll come Stormy Weather. Life is like a bug and let me tell you James Ivory ever pee. You find satisfaction content. Just lying here in my employ. Let me tell you once again that you wake up some morning. But I can make you understand where you laugh and cry. And it's hard kissing you when no one else can kiss me like you can and all the time you're trying to assure me that my you say that. You keep telling me that you don't expect no more. Jared I'm just pulling up try to be that big a fool if that's the way Jared I'm just pulling up try to be that big. Marty Robbins was really talking about fears all men have during their middle years and not just men married to someone 20 years younger. They really take a person down to the very depths of there being some of those anxieties questions about self and worth and what is it all about the serious problems of middle years was discussed with Reverend Art Johnson of St. Luke's Hospital in Fargo. We are in the hospital begin to feel that there is something which We certainly spoke of in terms of women, but also in terms of men is that there is a middle year kind of Crisis that takes place much more subtle. But it's they're the kinds of questions that a middle-aged man asks, the kinds of needs that he has the kinds of experiences that he goes through are much different than say 15 years. Before when he was trying to prove himself and business trying to prove himself in terms of a marriage partner. We see it and some gross situations. Of course when the person that enters the middle years really acts out he acts like a twenty-year-old he tries to prove that it can still play athletics. I recall three years ago. I was going to compete with the kids next door and I ended up in the hospital because I tried to show them a basketball shot. That didn't really work. My wife a question great support said what were you trying to prove art? But there are other more serious kinds of things that happened. There's an increase in alcoholism. There's an increase in depression. There's an increase in divorce. There's an increase in highway accidents. There is just a kind of melees of disturbance that the person can't put his finger on and yet he seems to be out of Step before he would like to be. Those that have done some work in this field begin to come up with certain kinds of suggestions of what's Happening. If and our society is a good example of this. If the individual is only performance orientated meaning if he gets his gains and a satisfaction by proving that he can compete with others that he can do a job. in relationship to a particular standard or those around him and do it often times as much better than they If there is a particular skill that he would like to master in his life. Then he has a goal to live for. He drives himself. He works hard with your courses are ethic. Oh, he is able to accomplish. This gets great satisfaction out of doing it. When it comes to the middle years the question no longer you see is one of being able to do something. the question then begins to sneak into his mind and it takes a number of years sometimes for him to be able to formulated Not can I do it but is it worthwhile doing what am I doing at 4? Is it making any sense in terms of society in terms of my goals in life? Is there any physiological thing that goes on during this. The studies so far? They've come up have said no, although certainly and I'm speaking here primarily of chemicals. Unlike a woman who goes through a menopause kind of hormonal change. That certainly there is outward physical logical changes it to take place. Like the other guy can't work all day like a used I can go out and compete on athletic field. He gets tired. He can't just go at something and innocence Drive himself through it without paying a real price and terms of his physique on the other hand. He begins to get diseases disability kinds of diseases other kinds of diseases. He's not the Adonis. He wants thought he was all of these especially for a male kind of individual becomes very threatening to him. And again, if he has been a hard worker, he has been an individual who has proven himself in the arena by being able to outfight or out of work or out exert or out prove somebody else. This can become very threatening to him at this point does not take care of his leisure time often times has trouble just sitting watching or listening to something to take up Hobbies. You'll have the same kind of frenetic kind of response. He has to learn really how to live a different kind of physical style. And before you think this is brought upon or in Made more severe for people because of the male image that we have in American culture. I think so in a couple of ways. I think the first way is that I know I felt extremely guilty when I wasn't working as a child. I as a man and I'm sure this is also true women but I as a as a young boy felt it at my job in life was just to work and to do productive work not just read or enjoy a hobby or even in the sense do something with somebody else but it always had to be in terms of doing something for somebody else or something that was going to support the community. This is kind of what are countries based on a very A very great kind of value the same time. However, if I no longer can do this if I'm in the hospital if I lose my strength if I cannot do the active kind of job that I did before the patient here in the hospital has real questions about herself for it. Also on the other hand there is within our system of real push on self-reliance autonomy. I should not only be able to do it but I should also be able to do it by myself. This is a male kind of characteristic. We're not supposed to share our feelings or our weaknesses with other people becomes almost redundant, but we're not supposed to cry you see in public or not supposed to say that we need somebody else even our wives. all of this makes it doubly hard for him when he reaches a middle-aged realizes more than ever that he needs other people realize is that his his Fears of being alone isn't what he is considered to be weaknesses and you see I even hesitate to even say the word that I'm saying. I need you will you please care for me? I am tired all of these kinds of direct responses. He's almost conditioned against because he's supposed to be the strong man. It's a matter really of redefining who you are. It's that kind of fundamental crisis. It takes you down at the core of your being and in a real sense is not agree. In fact, this has been said by number of people the novelist's upsetted for number of years Carl Jung is said the most psychiatric problems after 35 or religious in nature, and that's a very broad sense in terms of defining the meaning of life. Let me add one more thing the shows the authorities the parents that that we as growing up people we're identifying with are now no longer in the picture. The parents are becoming old the middle-aged person is becoming apparent. I'd only do his own children, but also to his own parents on the other hand his own children are coming and testing them out in the same way and this this produces a real fascinating kind of prices if the father is try is questioning his own worth and the Sun and Adolescence was also kind of going through the same thing as questioning. I'd only himself but is his dad's role if the father isn't kind of knowing where he is, then there can be a lot of acting out on both sides of Frankie to the loss of both. What kind of console do you give people? I realize there's no easy prescription to anything in life. But the first thing that I say somebody that comes up and begins to share this kinds of of Honor best kinds of struggle Isis, you know, welcome to the club. There's an awful lot of your ear. Secondly, I say that the middle years can be the most screen time. We don't have any positions. We don't have the pier fears of other periods of our life. We have made it. We we can come to terms of what week of in terms of what we can and can't do we can see. All right, you know, I can make it a living now. What else is there in life that is worth 500 when it gets more serious than that. Then I definitely often times refer them to other kinds of up psychiatric and other help because this can be a subtle kind of demonic crisis in these people's lives. So for men, this is Reeves the most difficult. In their lives frequently, isn't it? Yes, I think so and yet the most Potentially exciting because a man moving into the middle years really professionally or vocationally is only done about one-third of his life in terms of his a dog here. If you cease this and sees that he's now at a point of where perhaps he can really concentrate on some of the things that'll bring meaning for him. The next two thirds can be of can be instead of the most feared years can be some of the most creative what about the women's movement. It's saying don't treat us as things or don't treat us in traditional ways. How does it say to men? Let me just preface it by saying that I've done a lot of struggle with it. And I think this is an extremely exciting yet confusing time in terms of male-female roles. You know when you're in the middle of the waters kind of hard to see which side we're on I think female roles are changing. I think mail rules are changing. I think we're going to again go back maybe not again. Maybe for the first time go back and treat each of us out of stereotypes. But as individual human being I think this is the goal of going to take a long time and we're not we're not always going to be accurate in terms of being able to respond. I'm all for it. Wherever it leads at this point if it can free us up so we don't have to feel so guilty in terms of Who We Are That was rev. Johnson of St. Luke's Hospital in Fargo. Thanks for being with us on home for the weekend next week. We're going to be talking about the special world of children. Thanks for everything goes well. Her today. I'm home for the weekend where Eric Fontaine Michaelson rev Art Johnson father Virgil O'Neal Richard Doyle of the men's Rights Association and Craig Jeff and gray home for the weekend is hosted in produced by Bill Sebring and Marsha Oliver audio engineering by Steve terhaar funds for home for the weekend are provided by The Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the Lutheran Brotherhood fraternal Insurance Society.