orthoCall Dad cell. Welcome home for the weekend. Time to enjoy some conversation with neighbors to touch our routes and explore some ideas. We never get around to during the week. But which affect our lives nonetheless. Sometimes I wonder if I'm ever going to make it home again. It's so far. I really need someone to talk to and nobody else knows how to comfort me tonight is with no right to the Moon. I will be happy to let alone. The thing that most exemplifies a bad taste in my mind the thing that I always remember his one-time Kmart walking down the aisles and you work all these little thing to use to get in cereal boxes for you flip them back and forth and they're kind of polarized glass and things move. There was one of these large displays Methuen about 10 in rectangular Channel 6 by 10 in in on it was for the crucifixion was one of these little flip things in as you walk by at the light Christ flipped up and down off the cross from the cross to Mary's arms back up to the Cross this most CO2 test thing you've ever seen 95 unbelievable that That was Jim verdoorn. One of the managers of The Craft Arts Movement in Fargo. He was giving his opinion on taste and that's at home for the weekend is about today. I'm Marsha Elle Varner along with Bill Seaman will be talking about a variety of subjects taste Aesthetics design architecture and mass culture, but they all center around an individual's perception of what he sees in the introduction to the world of art done by public radio station w h a in Madison Wisconsin, they State we will explore the individuals everyday encounters with the elements of his world the Beautiful the ugly the ordered the chaotic the vital and the wasted and because these elements of Home neighborhood City and Nation are influenced by the values and priorities of our society. The program will also examine traditional and changing ideas about how we live and how we think we should live What's the attraction of the Prairie? Well, I think space is is the main thing at least the last place. I was at Southern California San Diego and Los Angeles and there is no space that has no room. There is there's no land. There's no time. No time to think everything's accelerated. You get out on the freeways and you drive 70 miles an hour. If you drive 65 you arrested for impeding traffic on the drive 75 arrested for speeding and it's true. You got to go right the way everybody else does it's like Lemmings and I think they're all going to go out into the Pacific one of these days. I'm not sure just because they'll panic and tell people that I was driving from my home in San Diego downtown and I couldn't find a parking place and I kept looking and looking and I got all the way back because I thought that was the slightly modified voice of Steve Ward who's on the English faculty at North Dakota State University. The Prairie where we live is a distinct Place different from San Diego, California or Albany New York or anywhere else for that matter. It influences everything. We do our work or play or arts and our design even came up a routine meeting at the Morehead City council meeting recently seem routine. It was the issuance of liquor licenses and so on but Richard Perry was quite upset about the appearance the design if you will love our city as we approach it particularly on Highway 10 and 75 and he said somebody somewhere out to be able to do something about it. Well, there are some people that are concerned about that a number of people in our community are concerned about design until we thought it was good to talk with them Marshall you talked with Jim verdoorn and Terry Menke who managed to craft Arts Movement in Fargo and Ron Ramsey of the architecture faculty at NDSU about design Oh, you're an architect Ron. What do you think design it design of buildings? And the design of functional objects tells us about a culture's values plans Institute, which is part of their Bicentennial celebration. It's going to happen every summer from now until 76. It's an analysis of the cultural growth of the region architecture major component part. In other words architecture is a reflection of the cultural values of a people. It involves a comparison and contrast of the vernacular and high-fashion aspects of design are both present and fairly much in inverse proportion to one another so that as an example in the earliest quiet architecture in the region, we find a very high compliment part of vernacular design Design that is felt that is subconscious instinctual as opposed to the high fashion, which is involved with taste with a capital T and sold at a barn for example, by any one particular ethnic group that settled here would have certain characteristics. It would be put together the beams and columns join in certain ways traditional ways ways that are That are vernacular that were common to. This particular groups ancestors and so as time progressed here as social strata developed and I suppose traditionally so the higher strata has set the The Taste the standards of taste for the for the rest of any any society that phenomenon happened and so as time progresses the vernacular component shrinks and is filled up that void is filled up with high fashion design. It's a shame that that that vernacular component is lost because it is there is a regionalism that does belong in each area another way to building that is placed here should look like it belongs here and and nowhere else we shouldn't build houses that have Greek columns across the front of them because they look like they belong in the Old South and other part of the Antebellum South and they don't belong here. There is their houses out in in sunken Heights with my boss always used to call so I can hide their houses out there that could be placed in Fort Lauderdale, Florida or Yakima, Washington, you know, they they tell you absolutely nothing about this region is one in particular. It has a very Grand setting into symmetrical house very formal. It faces North anyone in the past when this vernacular sense was much stronger would not have placed his house facing to the north if you could help it if he couldn't help it he would have protected the entryway in some way a very good example and one which I will make a mild prediction about is West Acres, which has all three of its major entryways facing due north with no protection whatsoever. I will predict that in the wintertime. West Acres is about to experience its first winter in operation. First real winter this last winter wasn't it wasn't a very strong one. But those doors are going to be absolutely impossible to open in very cold blustery days is going to be a positive pressure. So strong on the outside of us with all of which open out because codes required for panic, you know, so that you don't have someone trying to pull the door rather than push it those doors are just simply not going to open on very very cold windy days because they have no protection from the north. So environmentally that building is a disaster but it's going to be a very popular thing. It's what it already is a very popular thing and it's going to reinforce a lot of the bad taste that exist in this area just simply because it's the largest enclosed mall shopping center between Minneapolis and Seattle and we have traditionally held up as models anything that can claim to be the largest the biggest the best best & quotes and that is a shame which doesn't mean that the What is the biggest the best isn't necessarily something worth emulating they just have to be suspect. I might have to be careful. You have to exercise judgment and most of us have relinquished that sense of judgment. Use the phrase good taste. Do you think that something exists at this point in American history such as mass taste taste is Fizz debatable, but there certainly are we were talking earlier about the influence of television in the influence of mass communications at this is really influenced by people in the United States with people all over the world and it's probably started with the printing press to a large extent of the Mast a store the you know, the worldwide influence on Aesthetics and design has overcome regionalism, and there are certain holdouts regionalism left, but there are definitely lower key. I think regionalism unit tends to take it to its character from the people and people to a large extent. I've always felt there are infected by the environment in which they live and the natural environment especially and I think regionalism in the midwest has is something completely different from you and regionalism in any other part of the country. We do believe in regionalism. I mean, we believe that a building should look like a should look like it belongs where it is. It might come from the the Ecology of the region might come from the environment where the prevailing winds are the topography the climate all of the things that go together to make the natural environment and likewise there is a cultural component to regionalism as well that the Red River Valley is pray that predominantly Scandinavian whereas obviously other parts of the country are not predominantly Scandinavian and And so that the culture that people bring with them that the first settlers bring with them determine sometimes building forms this in this intuitive sense think one of the one of the best examples of of a really perverted kind of regionalism that's still a lot of fun and a place in Oklahoma where I live. I live in Oklahoma for 7 years, but not in this town and we went out there once. To a town called Prague. Prague Prague weather are very very large number of people of check to send Czechoslovakian and each year on the first good weekend in May. I think it is. They have a festival which they called The Kolache Festival. And they dress up in what they think are native Czechoslovakian costumes and they cook all sorts of native Czechoslovakian dishes, but I'm sure if you brought someone from Czechoslovakia and plugged him down into the middle of this kolache Festival that he would feel about his alien. If you'd if you'd plugged him into the middle of of a Shinto Festival in Japan, you know, and it's what these people in Prague think of it as being Czechoslovakia. They're trying to assert some sense of regionalism. Little boxes on the hillside little boxes made of ticky tacky Little Boxes Little Boxes all the same. There's a green one and a blue one. And the people in the houses all go to the university. And this doctors and lawyers and business executives. And they all play on the golf course and drink and the children go to summer camp and then and the boy is going to win the business and marry and raise a family same as a green one and the blue one and the same. People who move into anonymous housing developments like the the legendary Levittown another good example of it was a development outside of Detroit development designed by mies Van Der rohe a great perhaps not as well-known figure isn't as Frank Lloyd Wright not a household word, but the van der rohe designed some row houses, which were all identical identical front and the people who moved into them. We're so desperate for a sense of identity that they went out to places like Kmart and they bought the biggest Gladius most grotesque mailboxes and house numbers things that they can glue onto this relatively sterile Anonymous architecture to express their own personalities to make their house different from the one that either side of it so that when you come home late at night in a stupor, you know that you don't wander into the wrong bedroom. But we are in a great quandary because in the $0.01 we're desperate for senses of identity and yet our culture is one of mass culture which which precludes that almost. It did on the one hand. We're made as Anonymous as possible and and it heightens that that that desperation. How is mass culture affected design? well in the same way that it's affected speech probably with lost regionalism in speech because of the media because of radio and television that there were times in the past when one people from one part of the United States could not have understood people from another part, even though we were theoretically all speaking English and it's done pretty much the same thing to the design of objects of the things that we use and also the things that that we use in the static sense to decorate We can buy reproductions of things and reproductions necessarily mean in a master production just for economy's sake so it again marketability what will sell and production how many of something do you have to make in order to make it economical have have encouraged? Things first of all of the quality of which will not tax our imaginations think it will be easy to accept because things are difficult to accept or obviously not going to sell and enormous quantities of them so that you can find the same Bland sort of objects anywhere and everywhere in the mouse culture. Ron once said that the first is the best and I think that's basically true and you don't especially in advertising or marketing. Someone will come up with something that is rather unique and interesting an interesting way of selling something. I think we saw that when boiled and fernbach and Mary Wells and and these agencies came out the cult so-called new advertising kind of a truthful poking fun at the product kind of thing. And those are very good ads, but everybody picked up on that and is it gets picked up on it loses. It's some uniqueness and I think that happens a lot that the design is no longer the priority. It's someone comes up with a good design and everyone copies it. What are you help operate the craft Arts Movement? Do you find that that the Revival in the crafts the Revival of interest in crafts, especially by young people is some kind of reaction to American culture. I think so just for myself. I have no great plans for the future. It's kind of a reaction to What happens and I'm looking at starting to work at a job that you're not going to finish for 40 years is kind of a scary Prospect. So a lot of people are looking at things that they can do in and see what they've done you no sense of accomplishment. And getting away from mass-produced things right now. We appear to be going through a cycle or people are getting back to the crafts and terms of their more interested in things that are hand built in individual pieces in themselves. And I think of a large extent you can you know, you can see some of this happening with young people, you know getting away from the from the more the white color gray suit oriented business into something that's so perhaps a bit more blue collar or even getting down to can actually doing the quote working with your hands business on quote, but I wonder whether or not this isn't a cycle that's it's going to peek out within the next couple 3 years and we don't have people eventually returning again to the north of the more comfortable mass media of mass way of living I guess I'm just not too much of an optimist. Yeah, I can see that you run across. Oregon and culture Allure Kanab lifestyles are gone from San Francisco and the hippies to moving out of San Francisco into the communes. And I think there's a lot of people in the craft Revival but it's just cool right now or in our needs or not getting into something and I'm going to get into Pottery this month and I am learning that and I play with it for a while and then you know, they're going to get tired of it. and realize not realize. Yeah realize that they need to survive. Somehow. I'll get back into the jobs and get into the brat and you don't lose sight of why they left, you know the system or whatever. It is in the first place. Ginger's thing that we get we started out here with a discussion of a design and Esthetics and we ended up for the discussion of sociology and social problems, but the two are very much hand-in-hand in interrelated and it's sometimes very difficult to you not to separate them and part of the reason is getting back to the mass communications Factor again that mass communication to the show by Lenka shortened the natural cycles of of interest in life that people go through until that it's a cycle seems to be a cycle of any kind seems to be getting shorter and shorter. We were experiencing this a little bit with the instant Nostalgia thing that we're going through now that you know that things now that were produced in the sixties are becoming nostalgic and it's quite sickening the whole Nostalgia thing is is something that has anyone had good and yet can be bastardized. We ate one In a restaurant called Washington Street Station in the second floor bar, or the entire ceiling was made out of stained glass windows stained glass windows are beautiful things for when you saw so many of them together in one room. First of all running horizontally on the ceiling rather than vertically in a wall as they would probably have been originally situated. So that was kind of fun and it was nice to see with lights up above to see all of this. So, you know fantasy kind of thing and 1890s atmosphere which was what place is advertising, but then you realized that for every perhaps two or three of those windows. There was an old house somewhere that have been demolished wouldn't it have been better to have somehow managed to save? a few of those old houses in place with their windows and the kind of lifestyle that they exemplify just as an example of the way people used to live because as the National Trust for historic preservation says in Washington, you can't know where you're going unless you realize where you come from you going to have a past and your future and so here was here with someone who ever owns is Washington Street Station capitalizing on the Nostalgia that we're going through now at the expense of our environment of our cultural heritage of the expense of having an example in Kansas City of the kinds of buildings that people at one time used to live in Just for the sake of making a buck. There Are Places Son of God We lovers and friends at school. Can I call? I love that sometimes of course the Rees restoration of the past and Nostalgia doesn't provide some diversity of our environment, but for truly creative and new Innovative techniques that requires not only following good design, but sometimes breaking some of those rules of design Jim Barnard explains. I did have running for an instructor while attending Concordia and I like running has an excellent instructor and it was one of his axioms of me that you learn as much as you can about design and then you forget it because if you don't care tied into the you know, you're tied into the the quote rules on quote that you've learned of design. And so it's important that you know to try and assimilate what you've learned and then begin to use it in the intern intuitive sense. And I think it's it's too often this this assimilation that the that the students Miss they they accept the rules. They write them down. They memorize them for the next test and they going to court on them constantly, but they they really don't understand them they fail then to forget them and just begin to function with them instead of buy them. Just as in grammar one learns the rules and at the rules are stressed that in Early Education, I think their stress just so that we all have the same basis and then some of the greatest literature has and I think probably some great art to has come about because in the breaking of the rules that you first have to learn them before you can break them. It's one of the things that makes are extremely difficult to the teaching and also make a discussion of design and good design and ascetics extremely difficult to discuss indigest is the fact that the rules are made to be broken. They're extremely flexible rules. And that running is always said that that that he tries not to lay down rules after a certain point in this teaching because as soon as he set something up as a rule some idiot will come along that hasn't heard of it and break it and get away with it and do it and do a verb. Good job of it when you're in mathematics 2 and 2 does always equal 4, but when you're speaking in terms of rules of designed, they're not that concrete. They're not that tight end or tied down. In in the department of architecture, we teach a brand new design with your call comprehensive design on a word that deals with all aspects of the profession certainly one of which is the Statics and the word Aesthetics is not often mentioned simply because it is such a bag of worms that if if all of the faculty were put in one room, we would never be able to determine that accept down one definition for Aesthetics one set of rules. We probably be at one another's throats before 5 minutes were up. So the word is that sex is not often mentioned simply because we cannot all agree on them. It seems like there's a lot of disagreement. That's healthy. It's when everyone agrees what it is that we're in trouble. It's it's the well, I agree in that we should all disagree. That was Jim verdoorn and Terry mankee who operate the craft Arts Movement in Fargo and Ron Ramsey and assistant professor of architecture at North Dakota State University airport about agreeing to disagree is an interesting one. I guess. That's the American way of pluralism Marcia. I don't imagine anyone would want a uniform Universal style or design. Certainly. I don't think that we're going to come up with any standard of what is good taste or what's bad taste it all seems to matter much more with how an individual looks at something and this can happen with music as well as with design. Sometimes people don't respect each other's perspective though. That's that's where the rub comes we want to impose our standard on another are we say that because it's different. It's not valid Perhaps. It is true that that some versions of the same thing can be very much different. I have an example of a song everyone is familiar with and that's our national anthem the Star-Spangled Banner to musical groups have done the same song but they're virgins are so completely different that I don't know if one of appreciates one version will especially like the other what are the groups will the Mormon Tabernacle Choir does the late Jimi Hendrix does another they certainly come from different traditions and I think Jimi Hendrix also illustrates that idea of breaking rules. You've heard two versions of The Star-Spangled Banner one by Jimi Hendrix who comes out of the black urban experience. He was also heavily into drugs as some of you know, he died in early age and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, which of course is a strongly religious group and has a different view of America and of car music. Just as in the music we play that shows our tastes and our values the house that we live in also does the same thing I talked with two young architecture students who attend North Dakota State University Joel Davey and Marc Nelson, and I asked them what a house show is about a person's values posing as a place where it's most apparent that architecture. Tells us what the people consider valuable or what they're thinking rather than say institution where public buildings because those buildings are done by Architects working with committees where nobody particularly cares what's happening but housing is very close to people because it's their own expression to the world about what they believe in and what kind of Lifestyle they're trying to live. That's what they're doing in the United States. This is my lifestyle is the way I live America is probably the only place where we have this expression of individual Lifestyles through architectural through housing. It's because blanket statement hi to make a blanket statement about what people are. trying to express about how their cultural values but it seems to be a longing for the past if you got in Suburbia, the latest houses unless you're done by Architects, but the house has a developers do in the houses would sell our throwback to the past with modern conveniences. Of course, we have Tudor houses. We have swiss chalets we have French chateaus we have the apartment buildings are starting to express this so I can pick an apartment building in or do you want to live in a half Timber German type operation or do you want to live in a chateau? Or do you want to go live down in the Chalet type of operation? It's funny how architecture evolves most of the stuff when it was originally involved had very definite meaning and reasons for being just such example half-timbered house. This was a method of construction and an echo the framing an infield of this house and now all of his applique to the Nano to the structure and the meeting the original meaning of this thing has been completely lost and kind of in the shuffle. I guess if you were to duplicate The building they're imitating exactly. The chances are the people wouldn't particularly like it. In fact, I can think of several instances in Fargo where someone has just recently built. a house witch Is very close to the original? hot housing type in whatever country of maybe France Germany or England where they're trying to duplicate it from and people driving by and say this is really terrible terrible stuff, but they started want a toned-down version of it, which kind of fits in with their the Rambler style decorated and that's what it is. It's what they want is a convenience of the Frank Lloyd Wright Rambler all on one floor, etc. Etc. But decorated with a little flare a little style in which it certainly pulling out this to happen in the first place. This is the first culture this probably ever existed. It has the alternative of choosing a particular style of particular. That they fancy and being able to duplicate it without regard to such things as climate than the culture and whatnot. They know we we we become such as it's such a grossly powerful energy source a nation that now we can take any any style and evolve it to our own usage it. Maybe a few years ago, maybe maybe five years ago out of thought they would have been great. To be able to allow for every possible taste in other words that the ultimate freedom of choice in other words of a person wanted to do. a friendship tow a fine and dandy, but I think now or maybe getting into the problem of a conservation of energy and maybe materials in which the designer except for maybe rich clients, but the designer Can the public in general is probably going to have to be more sensitive to on designing with climate and with environment to conserve Fuel and materials? Has also this is also gone along with you the ecology. I mean the entire ecology bent of the society at Large. No more directly, you know plays against a college anything else because any time we do a building with us. We're disturbing the natural process. I mean, we're using wood and steel in for one thing. We're using all these gross amount of material to take down for us, you know rip up mine and do all of us just to start with it and then we put it on land which no tears up all the vegetation and dozes down all the trees in your building has to sit on Lance with at least you can lose his grass. And so if you're going to do this, which is kind of an affront to Nature. Anyway, you'd better do it well. Do you think the ecology movement has made people put design as more of a priority than it has been in the past eating people are becoming more aware of it in terms of the aesthetic qualities of designer in speaking of facades and forms and whatnot this I don't think it's been affected but what has been affected is the entire feeling on the on what is what is given and what is taking what what this building is taken from its surroundings and what it's giving and and it could be said now that the that the thought is generally the building should give a little more than it did in the past to its surroundings as well as to its occupants. The problem with architecture is in the past. I've never had to deal with mass taste you on the path. We working for patrons, you know, Michelangelo is working for the pope. Okay. Well, I know that's not mass taste at all, you know, and Call whoever it may be that was strictly a carpenter architect all rolled in one type guy that was putting up the houses for those guys. and so here we have it in our have to work we Architects have to work for the masses now and That's one of the big conflicts. I guess of this of this age is working for the masses and trying to trying to find something that is acceptable to the masses and acceptable the architect. There's one big problem with taste and all that other stuff. Let's say in housing and generous isolate something and call it holiday in the big problem is resale in other words, you know real estate valuation. and people when they put up a house for themselves are always thinking of selling this house. And I don't want to sell it cookie house, even though this house maybe you know many times more sensible than a house that has a certain marketable value or is popular at the time. It's like, you know pop tune or whatever and I think this is really one of the big drawbacks of Arc or one of the big hindrances to architecture in Innovative housing. What kind of things influence people's taste what makes them want a certain kind of housr. Well, it has to. Again, it has to be when this man puts up this house or moves into the house or whatever. It has to be acceptable to his neighbors or he thinks that anyway. He does not want a house in which one is Neighbors drive by it. They're going to say oh what a kook know who is this nut? They're not going to want that and so they're going to want a house. Which they think? Is it going to be as in the middle of the road as possible and yet and the conflict here is and yet they want that house to be somewhat reflective of their individual self. And this is this is really complicated. And as I said the way this is usually accomplished is that they do a very standard house form. In other words the silhouette that you might see which is a rambler or maybe a two-story or whatever it may be but it's very common shape and they decorate it. In a style and that's that's the I think that's sort of the governing thing with Tay and it's kind of a tightrope because again and this is all governed by resale and peer approval people can express themselves by putting a shooting star on the garage door and it will still sell again and it's and it seems to satisfy their need to create something individualize our house and some degree and I was seeing entirely too many comments on garage doors these days and yet at the same time, they're trying to say that I'm an individual separate and distinct from all the other individuals in my neighborhood. And I think this is where we get all this. Throwing back to ancient Styles in other words the decorated Rambler or Venturi cause at the decorated shed in other words, he throws back further than the Rambler. He throws back to the Other than the Rambler probably the only indigenous American housing form the shed nor the Saltbox and he calls it a decorated shed. What you think's make this makes a lot of sense actually know what the middle-class people are doing. If we're done with a certain amount of heart would be great. He thinks otherwise take a very simple basic idea and more cheaply than doing what other Architects are doing other words building very expensive forms build a very simple form and decorate that form. There's an example right now, I think in in in Moorhead, it was just built the new the new fire department is an example of using this this particular aspect. Is it taking a simple form and designing it properly finished reading it and coming off of something that is is head-and-shoulders above and in many people's estimations that which is, before it is culture and you refer to that when you talked what has created mass culture. Which in the past was probably never true. What is there Pinon said in some regards? The masses have been ahead of us a architects. An attorney but tastes right now exactly I'm talking about. Call it functional design the modern kitchen as we know it was probably not evolved by why no, it was not evolved by architect who was involved by housewives with enough money? To say this kitchen does not work cuz I could never care about kitchens, you know, cuz they're men and everything in the last 2 years out of the space for it and particularly and it was servants and all this and then passed that then the women doing all the work. I just a lot of space and said well this is the kitchen kitchen counters here instead put the range over there and let it go with that could not care less about the kitchen. I think the mass taste taste the fact that a lot of people have enough money to be able to choose what they want to do has done things like improved the efficiency of kitchens bathrooms. Say climate control in general things like that really kind of pretty valuable things in general. There's absolutely no question that a three-bedroom Rambler are despicable as it may be taste-wise is a whole lot more comfortable than 1890 Victorian house and I think I think basically Joe and I'd probably don't believe in too much of the defeat architect type imagery prefer to think instead of re-educating the masses that the masses are already adequately educated educated. But if anything is a matter of exposure to something that's new as as all people have had to be exposed at all times to everything that is new and if it is good and if it is in fact good and if it should it if it should survive a probably should since it involved with this this particular. Of time for a reason, but if it should survive the it is this mass in this Publican that will determine whether or not it does and it will be a matter of educating them. It'll be a matter of exposing into it and let you know. So they're not they like it. People seem to resist change in any form and it takes a long. Of exposure until it's proved that this change is indeed and another example of good old common sense that that that they'll swing around to that way of thinking you can go through this design process through a book and yet it's that additional step of imagination intuition creative thing that really makes the difference between a very pedestrian functional humdrum kind of appearance shopping plaza, whatever it might be in. It's something that is a has the qualities of a Frank Lloyd Wright building. Where does that come in? And how is that nurtured? The difference evolve with a man like Frank Lloyd Wright or Le corbusier or whoever it may be I think initially he's thinking more clearly than the other people about the functionalist things. In other words just thought process is more clear about actually what's happening. With the actual function of the building and through that he transit mean or transcends what exists in the humdrum thing that you find in graphic standards or any other information book a reference book on how to do a parking lot or a hospital or what whatever it maybe and from that point because he's thinking better about it. It becomes poetic song. I can't believe your song is called so soon. hungry, man sweetheart solo solo solo Architects Make a Man Out of You Virginia Board of you solo so long solo solo solo solo so long solo No, Marsha, Frank, Lloyd Wright was a singular figure. That's no wonder that his name has come up throughout the program talking with different people because he was somebody that did break the rules and yet he had his own set of rules of organic architecture. He called it. He also was influenced by the Prairie. It was more than Wisconsin Prairie than the North Dakota Minnesota Prairie, but none the less. He was frequently misunderstood door or ostracized booty. Got a lot of trouble getting his ideas across even the Guggenheim Museum in New York is so well-known was rejected because it was violating building codes and going against the rules frequently. Certainly. There was no Standard Building that wright-designed he would take into consideration that the people who would use a building the setting in which the building would be built the use the building. Report to all these things are taken into consideration. So when when someone talks about trying to find a standard for something right stand out as a good example true and even though some people felt that his design was not good or didn't meet everyone sensibility. I think that he did follow some principles was just shows again and that's how we do we can't come up with any definitive statement about what's good taste or good style particular that would be suitable to everyone but I think during the program people become more sensitive to perhaps to the whole issue of style and design and that's one of the things that we hope to listeners are coming away with I'm all for diversity in the American culture. That's why I'm somewhat down on the bestseller popularity. We all read the same book. We all go to the same movie. We all watch the same television show where we're going to look like penguins probably penguins look different to each other. But at least from the outside world going to look alike. There's a book by it in the book off called Lolita Humbert Humbert takes off cross-country any stops and motels and they all look the same you can go all over this country and never feel that you've gotten out of Fargo you stop at holiday and every night you eat at Howard Johnson's or whatever you give got standardized food standardized caught living accommodation to standardize the reading matter television programs at the same any place in the country. Much rather have diversity. I'd like to have regionalism if you will so that we can look at different kinds of things and if we say what we must have taste we must have a popular aesthetic. Must have for the standardization. I think we've got trouble because everything is the same as monochromatic. It's all the same color. I'd much rather have my friend out here about that Phoenix. I want to cost me $20 and look at that frame in the colors match and I like that and that's fine. It's a picture of a count always like cows. Okay, they got an opinion. We got some place to start. What somebody like me I come into the studio and you say well tell us about taste nice and then I don't know anything about taste for sure and I'm not sure what's right or what's wrong answer wishy-washy much rather having somebody come out with a strong opinion and the people I know in North Dakota that may be wrong. I usually think you're wrong because they disagree with me. But as far as they're concerned, they're right. That was Steve Ward a member of the English faculty of North Dakota State University. I'm glad you could be with us today on home for the weekend next week. We'll be talking about how we spend our time our work and our leisure. Thanks for everything goes well. Get rid of these kids. Heard today. I'm home for the weekend. We're Jim verdoorn Terry mankee Ron Ramsey Steve Ward, Joel Davey and Mark Nelson home for the weekend was produced and hosted by Marcia over and we'll see Marine audio engineering by Steve terhaar home for the weekend is made possible by grants from The Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the Lutheran Brotherhood fraternal Insurance Society.