MPR’s Kate Smith interviews author Greg Breining and photographer Layne Kennedy about their book “Paddle North,” which explores the Quetico-Boundary Waters. The two discusse the method, madness and philosophy of paddling Minnesota's big lakes and small streams.

Greg Breining writes about travel, science, and nature. Layne Kennedy is an award-winning photographer. Both are seasoned outdoorsmen.

Transcript:

(00:00:28) Even if you've never set foot in the North Woods, you've heard of The Boundary Waters canoe area Wilderness. It's more than a million acres and more than a thousand lakes. It's captured in a loo new book called paddle North canoeing The Boundary Waters coat Quantico Wilderness, and we'll talk with the writer photographer team about their newest collaboration next. That's after the news.
(00:00:55) From NPR news in Washington, I'm Craig Windham the government's latest wave of economic reports shows some bright spots for the nation's economy and PR's scenario Clinton says consumers spending and sales of new homes are up and first time claims for unemployment benefits are down according to the labor department. The number of people applying for unemployment benefits has gone down for the second time in three weeks. But with the unemployment rate stuck at 9.8 percent companies are not adding many workers either also according to reports from the - Department orders for durable goods went up the most in eight months. That is if you exclude the big ticket items associated with Transportation consumer spending is up modestly and more people bought new homes in November. Scenario Glutton MPR News Washington security has been stepped up in Rome where package bombs have exploded today at the embassies of Switzerland. And Chile and PR's Sylvia put Jolie reports two. People were wounded
(00:01:51) row Mayor John yelling mono said investigators are following what he called. International leads but gave no further details. There has been no immediate claim of responsibility for the incidents which are similar to events in Greece last month anarchists were suspected of sending booby-trap Parcels to the offices of German Chancellor Angela Merkel and to Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi as well as several embassies Italian police are checking all embassies in Rome. So people Jolie NPR
(00:02:19) news Rome Congress has adjourned for the year when lawmakers return in January. Republicans will have a majority in the house and increased strength in the Senate but President Obama says he still thinks lawmakers in the White House can find common ground on a range of issues. My sense is the Republicans recognize that with greater Powers going to come greater responsibility and some of the progress that I think we saw in the lame duck was a recognition on their part that people are going to be paying attention to what they're doing as well as what I'm doing and and what the Democrats in Congress are doing. Speaking at the White House before departing for Hawaii. He arrived there a few hours ago to join his family for a ten-day vacation. The holiday Exodus is underway with many Americans getting an early start today to try to beat the crowds Janine Jackson was catching a flight to Chicago from New York's LaGuardia Airport.
(00:03:12) I don't like crowds but getting here early in the morning takes that pressure out of it also around Christmas. The crowd seemed a little
(00:03:19) friendlier London's Heathrow Airport is back to near normal operations today. Officials there say it will take some time for Airlines to get thousands of Travelers who spend who been stranded at the airport to their destinations and to other airports after days of problems that were caused by snow and frigid temperatures across Europe on Wall Street at this our stock prices are mixed. The DOW Industrials are up seven points at 11,500 66, but the NASDAQ composite index is down 7, this is NPR news from Washington support for news comes from the Lang loss. And supporting innovation in physical and emotional healing for underserved populations at Lang Loft dot-org from Minnesota Public Radio news. I'm Phil Picardy an 11 month old Saint Paul boy was reunited with his parents late last night after a ride in a stolen car. The boy's father says he left the baby in his car seat for a short time while he went in the house, but the car was stolen the boy was found in the snow near a Maplewood apartment complex about 90 minutes later police also recovered the car. There have been no arrests in the case in advanced. Look at a documentary film about the mass executions in Mankato in 1862 is being shown around the region Sunday marks the 148th anniversary of the largest mass execution in US history. Mark style reports the film Dakota 38 documents a horseback ride in 2008 that ride commemorated the Indians hanged at Mankato following a six-week war in 1862 film co-director Silas Haggerty says Dakota 38 is a mess. For reconciliation between Native Americans and whites if there was one goal. I think it was really to face this tragic past and then to really move forward hegarty says a rough cut of the film has been shown in several locations including Fort Snelling where many Dakota were held in a prison camp in 1862. He expects the final version of the documentary will be released next year mark style Minnesota Public Radio news Worthington workers cleared snow and ice from the Metrodome roof again yesterday two weeks. After the roof collapsed in a snowstorm officials still are not certain how or when the roof will be fixed. Long time. Minnesota Wild coach Jacques Lemaire has is the new coach of the New Jersey Devils. The devil's fired coach John McClane and replaced him with Lamar. The 65-year old Lemaire spent only a few months in retirement. There's a good chance of snow for mostly southern Minnesota for the next day and a half Snow moving in today in southern Minnesota and snowing tonight as well. It's MPR news. This program comes from small beer, press presenting what I didn't see and Other Stories a new book from Karen Joy Fowler author of the best-selling the Jane Austen book club available from small beer press.com and bookstores
(00:06:11) in our next hour of mid-morning a new book out by a Minnesota writer photographer Duo about the northern Wilderness called paddle North. It's mid-morning on Minnesota Public Radio news. Carry Miller's away. I'm Kate Smith the challenge of The book it seems paddle North was to translate the Wilderness for those who've never been there. And for those who love it when you open the book from Greg brining and Lane Kennedy, you might expect a nice peaceful coffee table book paddle North delivers on that. The text is Rich and descriptive the photographs beautifully executed but paddle North seems to go a step further. It offers a point of view from two men who love the Northwoods Wilderness. It suggests that those people who think of the Border country. Minnesota and Ontario as Timeless Forest should think again over time the land and the species will change should change it suggests the book explores a hydropower plant project proposed by Ojibwe Indians in Canada. It asks the provocative question. How pure is the Wilderness considering it's been inhabited for many centuries. Greg brining is here in the studio this morning. He's the writer behind paddle North newly out from the Minnesota Historical Society press Pleasure
(00:07:25) sir. Good morning, Kate. Thank
(00:07:26) you. And your counterpart joins us long distance from Sonny I think Virginia Yorktown, Virginia Lane Kennedy good to have you today.
(00:07:35) Hi Kate. How are you? It is sunny today, but
(00:07:37) cold. Well Greg. I want to start with you because this book to me seemed to be a whole lot of different things. It's Pros. It's images. It's reporting and I want to get a sense from you. How much of your goal with a book like this with absolutely? Teufel images is to create a sense of place that's tangible enough. So people who've never been there get it but to tell some of us who have been there something new is that
(00:08:07) well, I think you've nailed it. Absolutely. The one of the aims of the book is to very much create a sense of being there at that can be appreciated by someone who has never been there before but on the other hand, I did want to bring Something of intellectual substance, if you will, I didn't want it to be the text that is simply to be in accompaniment of lovely and Rich photography. I wanted to see both the photos and the writing contribute something of substance So to that extent. Yeah, I wanted it to be something a little bit more than a coffee table
(00:08:46) book and the chapters of the book are interesting because they bring their they break down very differently at least to me. Right about canoes and travel and and the history of canoe making you write about a winter experience you write about ecological and environmental issues. Are there techniques that you tried to employ along the way to achieve a sort of intimate sense of place while you were being a journalist to
(00:09:16) well a perhaps technique implied something way to deliberate it doesn't just happen in In fact, what what I was trying to do was to select some icons of The Boundary Waters. What are some things we associate with the Boundary Waters that describe it and distinguish it so we have the canoe. I mean it is Canoe Country for a number of good reasons Maps. You need a map to get through the place Rock portage's and so I tried to select these icons. The initial ones in the book the ones I just mentioned tend to be fairly concrete, but as the book goes on they become more abstract. So we have shadows of the north which are all these sort of Vanishing things of The Boundary Waters or things that may vanish things like the links which is sort of right on the edge of its habitat there and may retreat northward with the Wolverine and the Caribou listening point, which it is sort of a Wilderness concept or Wilderness ethic that we associate with the Boundary Waters and which is changing
(00:10:34) now Lynn Kennedy was gracious enough to share some of his wonderful photographs with us. And if you go to NPR news.org right in the center of the page, there is one of his lovely images and if you click on that, there's a wonderful slide show of a half a dozen or so of the images Lane, you know, I know Photographers say the best photos tell their own story and I want to get a sense from you about how you approached The Narrative of the photos for this book.
(00:11:06) Well, you know Greg and I in the previous book that we did when he talks about the chapters. I think that's how we looked at. This is that we're trying to tell a real story about this location and when it comes to covering a topic like The Boundary Waters, I think in order for us to differentiate ourselves, And how we covered The Boundary Waters we want to do something. That was very real. Tell the whole story. So it was a photographer. I think I'm more of a photojournalist and I am a landscape photographer for sure is I never go out with the goal of trying to create a single image per page. We're really trying to create photographs that tell the complete story the dots become connected. So pictures of people wrong Camp are connected to Portage and the Portage is connected to the fire and so on so forth every once in a while, you know, you come across an image like Water tossed when it was 35 below zero outside, then you know that those those types of images seem to surpass the sum of all the parts and you hope that you'll come across those two for the most part. I was just trying to cover the whole story of the about who orders experience.
(00:12:06) I did see that water toss image and I thought oh, he must have just died and gone to heaven when he realized he had it perfect.
(00:12:14) Just just you know, they say it's a f8 and be there
(00:12:18) and it makes up for all the ones you don't get
(00:12:21) it. At least
(00:12:22) exactly it's mid-morning on Minnesota Public Radio news. I'm Kate Smith. We're talking this morning with Greg brining st. Paul writer and Lane Kennedy St. Paul based photographer about their new effort. The book is paddle North. It's brand-new out from the Minnesota Historical Society press and it's about the Boundary Waters and Quantico Wilderness areas. We'd love to hear your experiences. Are you a Boundary Waters? Canoe Country lover. Have you been a lot or Dreaming of it. Give us a call this morning and tell us your thoughts about the Wilderness. What are your memorable times or your memorable images? We'd love to hear one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight. That's eight hundred two four two two eight two eight in the Twin Cities the numbers six, five one two, two seven six thousand six five. One two, two seven six thousand or you can go online and PR news.org and click on send us a question. Greg burning there's a little section of the book that I would like you to read for us. It's it's one of those places in the book where to me as a reader. You really shared a point of view about an aspect of the wilderness.
(00:13:37) Yes, I'll be glad to I guess the setup here is it's preceded by an essay in which we recognize that things are changing in The Boundary Waters and that some of the familiar signs like the Moose may not be there forever. So this is the conclusion. It may be that a hundred years from now canoeists will not be able to catch lake trout here that even the deepest lakes will have warm sufficiently that trout will have joined A northward procession of caribou and lengths and other Boreal creatures and plants such a loss would be a tragedy to those of us who know Canoe Country as it is, but it would be wrong to take this sentiment and the anger and despair it. Folks too far for icons are the things we see is a pond fix a place in our minds, but they are changeable and delusory in some distant future. There will still be a tumult of Life a robust mix of species in the north the people of that time we'll celebrate New icons no longer moose links and Spruce but white-tailed deer bobcat and red maple and there will remain a few of the old familiar signs. If we from the past where there to appreciate them the Lakes the rocks and the glimmering shifting lights on the trail of souls.
(00:15:13) That's Greg brining reading from his new book out from the Minnesota Historical Society, press paddle North canoeing The Boundary Waters quite a go Wilderness, you know, the debate over climate change was ringing in my ears as I read that section and and your entry You to not hold onto disappointment anger about that change was fascinating to me because there's so many writers who love the North Woods who cling tenaciously to what we know of them now during our lifetime was that has that been a an adjustment at transition for you to come to
(00:15:52) OU very much. I mean even in the process of working on this book, of course. One of the first steps was to try to identify the things that so distinguish the North country and of course many of those things are the very things that will be changing in the well in the lifetimes ahead. Not not so much in my lifetime. I'm an old guy already, but certainly in the in the decades in the in the centuries ahead things will change and you can take a Take angry view of that or you can say well we're we're on a Grand Adventure and life will prevail life will abide and it will become a new place different place. It has changed before and it will change again and that's not a reason not to Value this 2 million Acres of wild spectacular
(00:16:55) country if you got any pushback from people I have If not, I have
(00:16:58) not but we'll see maybe after this program
(00:17:04) Mark is calling us this morning from Ely High Mark. Welcome to mid morning.
(00:17:08) Good morning. Good morning. Thanks. What's your comment today? Mark? Well for 40 some years since I began guiding up in Ely. I've watched the woods evolved I guess and After studying the Ecology of it getting to know individuals at the University of Minnesota and knowing their I'm out of breath. I was just shoveling some
(00:17:36) snow take a moment. We don't want a beautiful. We don't want to create any problems here.
(00:17:41) Just take a deep breath and he's I think we need four more inches of snow. I understand to break the record first. Cheers. Yeah. I've seen my favorite campsites get trampled. I've seen the portage's widen. I could go on and on and on but I won't I'm hoping to have dialogue with the forest Service Department of Agriculture to actually discuss to begin the dialogue on restoring The Boundary Waters mean to you. Well, it means something that 80 some years ago individuals were pleading with the government to yes. We're cutting it down. What are we doing afterwards and it was the loggers that took the hit they took the fall for the government and indirectly it was not anybody's particular fault. There was a lack of Ethics. There was a lack of education on what you do after you rape the land so to speak so now we've got Woods that are not even safe to walk through the debris is so thick nothing grows in any natural regrowth of white pines and Norway's are affected because they can't grow properly. So we must begin the dialogue on. And will cost serious money and environmentalist will be so anti this because we're going to need modern technology to do this thing and over so many years we can begin to regenerate and regrow and reforest that Wilderness. It's not going to be that difficult. We just need to amend some laws
(00:19:27) Mark. Thanks for the call. I want to hear what Greg has to say Greg
(00:19:30) brining. Well, I think I know where Mark is going with this and I mostly agree. In fact, I read about it in the last essay in the book our sort of pie-in-the-sky notion of wilderness stemming from thorough and and sort of the environmental movement of the 60s is created the sense that Wilderness is this pristine land untrammeled where we're Man visits but does not remain it doesn't really describe the Under Waters humans have always been there. They've always exerted their effect. But this because of this attitude or this idea of wilderness and Wilderness management has entailed things like keeping all artificial influences out like fire and the fire policy which Mark is alluding to is it is a great example, we can't go in there and do controlled Burns because it would violate light the Wilderness policy. The forest service has a let burn policy but there are all kinds of conditions under which you can't let a natural fire burn and so it's really a rarely burn policy. And as a result you get all kinds of senescent old dying for stand and fuel build up and when you do get a fire you get these big catastrophic fires like Ham Lake or cavity cavity like fire. What would make a lot more sense as what they do to some extent in the Quantico, which is to say, you know, if we're going to have the natural regimen of fire what has existed up there for centuries. We need to go in and start a few of them. We need to manage the forest. It's a false conceit to to just say we can draw a border around here and pretend it's Wilderness pretend its pristine and take no responsibility for managing it.
(00:21:31) Lane Kennedy you were back in 2007 up there in The Boundary Waters. When one of those recent fires broke out Ham Lake right and like fire correct and and remind me now you and Lee fralick the U of M ecologist were there on a trip together then wreck and give us a sense. If you would what's your clearest recollection of those days. There are some amazing some of your photographs in the book from that fire. You were a Cross the lake from it filling the rest of the story for
(00:22:05) us. Well, we were actually in doing a story. It's funny a great kind of alluded to this earlier kind of the changing conditions in the Cloudy Waters. We were up actually doing a story on the changing Ecology of the Boreal forest to the global warming. And so that's why I was up with Lefroy licking does axelson doing a story on this we'd actually paddled across the ice had gone out the day before so the water temperature was still right around 35 36 degrees and it was incredibly windy. This is you know, first week of May which normally still cold up there and then the winds were coming out of the South very, you know, 30 40 miles an hour and warm. It was 75 degrees. It was just weird, you know, those kinds of conditions were just weird and we had paddle all the way over to Three Mile Island where we can't the first night and when we got up the next morning, I got in the kayak it was three of us and these two guys were in a canoe and I've been in the Boundary Waters before by yourself paddling and when and I went you know what I'm not To do this I use my kayak which allowed me greater access around the lake and as I drifted out while we were waiting to break Camp. I noticed to the South there was a small plume of smoke and we kind of all comment is well, geez, there's somebody else out here other than us crazy guys the first week of May and that plume of smoke was the start of the hand like fire and within an hour, it had tripled in size within 4 hours it took up almost half of the sky within eight hours. It consumed the entire landscape and basically it wasn't so much the fire that had trapped us. It was the windy conditions that did not allow us to leave the lake and then we were there for three or four days in the fire actually work its way completely around us and it was just it midnight one of the photographs that you see in the book The large panoramic shot from one of the Bluffs on seagull it's basically shot at midnight, but it's so bright from The Embers burning from the cavity like fire Illuminating the clouds that you can walk around like you it was date.
(00:24:02) Were you you were on the opposing Shore now on seagull which is a pretty big like we're using were you aware at all of your danger? What did you do? What were you guys
(00:24:16) doing? You know, it's funny. We were we talked about it quite a bit. We were pretty prepared for but I think in a lot of ways also has as a journalist. It was also kind of wilderness person. It was pretty exciting it no point in time and I think this true for all three of us who were up there. Are we never felt at any point that our lives were in danger? I think the thing that amazed us the most was that you know, the cavity Lake Fire had already taken down almost all of the forest other thing. It was standing with these dried sticks from the cavity like fiber wondering what the heck is burning and of course it was that that was burning and then it was Resorts that were burning and then in encroach into new Wilderness areas that wherever still green and it was burning and of course, you know, it's May everything was packed down dry as a bone and just igniting everywhere. There was a couple of times where we made sure that our tents and our canoes were in position that if we had to chase out the lake we could do so and only once during one of the wind shifts that we actually had to pull our t-shirts over our faces and handkerchiefs around our faces because the acrid smell of the smoke is actually starting to her throats and that's you know, that's starts get the blood pumping a little bit you're thinking. Okay. Are we going to have to leave and then the wind shifted and we refined and I think the only time we really get nervous Is one of the mornings we woke up and that was the third morning in the fire was still Ablaze when we got up. I looked at the Jaime which was to the north in the north was glowing and immediately I thought okay. Now the fires wrapped around us. So what do we need to do? And that was a that was you know, that was a little tricky and we kind of waited it out realize the fire which is so big that the glow was so large that it felt as if it was a lot closer to us than it actually was
(00:25:55) and and once you were able to move around and maneuver into some of the areas that Had burned as as a wildlife and nature photographer. Did you have a sense that you were seeing the Wilderness in a really different way from how you'd ever seen it through your lens before?
(00:26:14) Oh absolutely. In fact because the cavity leaks fire had burned a good portion of seagull those Hills that you interesting when I've been paddling seagull for 25 years and when we take off from the same take off spot that we go to may go down the channel. We hit the open Lake when you look off to the distance all you ever solver. Was just layers of green now. When you go there you saw layers and waves of Bedrock that you would never have seen before so there was a new kind of Beauty in a way. You got to see a landscape very different than it was before you could see wildlife much easier than you ever could before but the hardest part was that same entry point that I made from seagull for all these years as we were paddling out that they it was all still on fire. And all you could do is just keep shit in your head. I can't believe this I can't believe this is happening. And you know just four days earlier. It was green and beautiful and that we're paddling out and it's burning.
(00:27:10) Ben is calling from Mankato this morning. Hi, Ben. Welcome to mid-morning.
(00:27:14) Hi. Hey, what's the situation with the blowdown area? I haven't been out there for quite a few years at The Boundary Waters. That was just curious what that was about
(00:27:27) brining. What's what's your latest report on that big swath of area?
(00:27:33) It's still there affected. That was July 4th. 1999, I believe. Yeah. Yeah in which a really bizarre straight-line wind came through and blue down hundreds of thousands of Acres of trees almost miraculously. We escaped a huge fire in that area immediately afterwards some of that area burned with the cavity like and ham like fires parts of the blowdown that had obstructed Portage trails and campsites and everything has been cleaned up in other places. It's still there to be seen and admired in all of its pickup stick Beauty. It is pretty amazing to see in places
(00:28:24) it slowly rotting away yellow. I didn't mean to interrupt their credit card in there are certain places, especially I know this is a long the Gunflint Trail because I tend to head up that direction more than I do go over towards the western side of the The waters in some of the areas in the cavity League fighter, you know, it's amazing. There's already trees that are eight to ten feet tall already and it's amazing to see how quickly the landscape recovers but then you go to places as Greg was saying where you know, the paint is still evident, you know, you pull into the western side of Gunflint lake and you look across the lake and go. Oh my gosh. Yes heck happened over there. Absolutely. It just takes your breath away and you know a lot of it is that areas like that The Boundary Waters has very little or no topsoil. oil and so it's going to take a long time for debris to decompose recreate soil for things to grow and so places like Gunflint leg actually become kind of an ecological school ground for you to look at and see what a fire can actually do but it's amazing to me how quickly the fire is recovering and the last gift recovery and others efforts from people like upon the Gunflint Trail Association who hold a gun Flint green up every year where they go out and plant 10,000 do Every Spring and they're surviving and they're
(00:29:42) growing and more power to them,
(00:29:44) you know, Greg and one point in the book you talk about the balance Nature's Balance and you suggest that really when we think about it that way that that's a fallacy because there is no balance and I wonder so here we've been talking for 5 or 10 minutes about fire, which is one of the probably most significant things to affect our landscape fire flood does fire is fine. Fire the sort of the final prove Ur of the of course, there's no balance. It's all it's all about huge cataclysmic events and and the recovery from
(00:30:19) them. Well indeed, that's that's true. Actually, I don't think fire is the final word. I think climate is frankly, but we've seen the more we learn the more we realize I think as ecologist or is ecologically minded people that that if we are under the illusion that There's a balance of nature. It's just because our lifetimes are so short. We see this little slice of time of the woods and we think oh, it's static. This is the way it's supposed to be but in fact climate changes new species invade old species disappear there catastrophic fires the forest burns down and grows back and that in fact that dinosaurs. Mm is that Dynamic is Responsible for a lot of the life in the forest. If we're just old old growth. A lot of things would be missing from that forest. And in fact these these fires are a blessing in
(00:31:20) disguise. It's mid-morning on Minnesota Public Radio news. Excuse me. I'm Kate Smith. We're talking this morning with Greg brining and Lane Kennedy. Their new book is out from the Minnesota Historical Society press it's called paddle North canoeing The Boundary Waters Quantico Wilderness. We'd love to hear from you this morning. Have you traveled to The Boundary Waters? Have you been there over time and seen some changes or have you never been and are curious about some things about the Northwoods Wilderness? Give us a call this morning one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight. That's eight hundred two four two two eight two eight. If you're listening in the Twin Cities, six, five, one two, two seven six thousand or online MPR news.org and click on send us a question. We'll get back to our conversation here on mid-morning in just a minute.
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(00:32:37) from Minnesota Public Radio news. I'm Bacardi more people have been buying new homes, but not enough to Signal better times for The Battered Housing Industry. The Commerce Department says sales of new homes Rose 5.5 percent last month that gain came after sales had fallen to the second lowest level in 47 years in October. Rome's mayor describes it as a wave of terrorism against embassies package bombs exploded today at the Swiss and Chilean embassies in the Italian Capital injuring the two people who open them. Police have ordered checks at all embassies in Rome Italy's interior. Minister says investigators believe anarchists may be behind the package bombs. The UN says at least 173 people have been killed in Ivory Coast and it says ninety others were tortured or treated inhumanely because of post-election violence in the West African nation UN Human Rights officers documented the killings and abuses between December 16th and December 21st, after days of delays brought on by No fall, it's getting easier for travelers to get in and out of Britain. Most services are running normally at Heathrow Airport. And on the cross Channel trains a slight rise in temperature helped melt most of the snow and ice in London, but heavy snow shut down the airport in Dublin Ireland for several hours. The national weather service has issued a winter weather advisory for much of the Southern half of Minnesota forecasters. Say accumulating snow is expected from this afternoon into Friday morning, specifically The Weather Service. Service has light snow will move into West Central Minnesota shortly after noon snow intensity will increase after three o'clock this afternoon and snowfall totals of 3 to 6 inches are expected by tomorrow morning drivers May encounter difficult travel conditions due to reduced visibility and snow covered roads right now in the Twin Cities Cloudy Skies the temperature at 26 degrees and Fargo-Moorhead. It's cloudy and 21 in Rochester. It's cloudy and 25. This is Minnesota Public Radio news.
(00:34:44) Coming up today on midday at eleven former Senator. Dave durenberger will be in the studio with Gary eichten to review the years achievements in health care reform and then over the noon hour award-winning author Kate DiCamillo speaks at the club book series that's coming up on midday today back to our conversation here on mid-morning with Greg brining and Lane Kennedy. Their new book is out from the, Minnesota. Oracle Society press it's called paddle North canoeing The Boundary Waters Quantico Wilderness, and we've got Chris on the line calling from Duluth High Chris. Hello. What's your comment today? Chris?
(00:35:22) Oh, I just was listening to your program. I was very interested. When I heard that Greg was going to be on I work with a for service up here as a information officer. Sometimes when we have different incidents like the ham like fire and my day-to-day job is an information with the Superior National Forest. But what I wanted to just mention is that we have the for service husband and involved in implementing a large scale. Described fire program in The Boundary Waters since the blowdown prescribed fires are intentionally lit carefully planned fires that we have done working on we plan about 80,000 acres in the blowdown. We completed about 50,000 little over 50,000 Acres. We have to wait until we get the right conditions and what we're doing with that is actually trying to break up the continuity of the fuels the blowdown fuels we aren't going to try to get rid of all of it because actually the blowdown was a natural event and it's a huge area like that. There isn't any way that we would go in and be able to remove all of the the blowdown and perhaps that we don't want to do that. But we are we did plan out this kind of strategically placed feel feel brakes now and so we time To to do that Bernie kind of towards the end of the season September October or early if we have the right conditions. So a lot of times people don't see that we're trying to reduce that impact, but they may see some signs of that work when they do get back into the area. Of course, we close it off to the public when were actually burning
(00:37:08) and as you say the conditions have to be just right for things like that. What what what is the potential complication for the forest service in that policy and that very policy deciding to sort of peace. Smeel out how you are managing the the part of the Wilderness that has been affected by something as huge as the blowdown.
(00:37:28) Well, first of all, it's the impetus for us to to plan out. The prescribed Burns was basically the safety issues the potential for a big fire to get started and to leave the Wilderness and to threaten communities and people outside and the potential for resource. Should I think that probably on this Greg you said you've been up in that area like after the cavity Lake fire and some areas of Ham Lake where there's an intense fire does a lot of damage and are monitoring has shown us that we see far far less resource damage. And in fact, actually there's some good things that happen like the very, you know growth of berries and that kind of thing after the prescribed fires compared to the damage of large fire. So so so we needed we knew we needed to do some active management up in the Boundary Waters after the blow down and we had a lot we had some national International experts. We've done a lot of Cooperative work with our counterparts in Canada. We help them on their fires and they help us on our fires and are prescribed fires and we're learning from each other and that's been a real real good partnership
(00:38:49) Chris. Thanks so much for the This morning bring us up-to-date.
(00:38:51) Yeah. Well, thank you.
(00:38:52) And Debbie is on the line now. She's calling from Grand Marais Debbie. Hi, welcome to
(00:38:57) mid-morning. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I just I hadn't listened to the whole program. So I'm not sure if you covered this, but a different perspective of we have a home right on the edge of we were actually the first property that was hit during the hamrlik fire and talking about fire is good reforestation. So on and so forth, but the problem is is that the blowdown happened 10 years ago and a lot of the c-czar's was removed fire, you know helps open up seeds and and create a better ground for reforestation. But when the seed source was removed from the blowdown we live up there on a daily basis are not seeing the Regeneration that fires normally praying and I was Disturbed soils increased opening up of the natural Forest. There's a Out of invasive that are coming up and so you're not seeing a lot of regeneration of you know, the natural flora and fauna up there and we're seeing a lot of grasses and brush and that sort of thing. So it's really we we have our lands but it's it's very difficult with all the invasives in and about
(00:40:15) well and Greg brining interesting because that speaks directly to what we were talking about earlier do You manage the forest to return it to what it was or do you manage the forest to allow it to have succession? I mean that ecological succession is part of
(00:40:31) nature sure a little bit of both really. It's interesting what Debbie said about the seed source some of that problem stems back a lot farther than the blowdown it goes all the way back to logging in The Boundary Waters just about half of the Boundary Waters has been logged in the past. And that logging removed a lot of the mature Pines in places that would provide a seed source for a lot of reseeding. In fact Lee fralick. The university ecologist said that what he would like to see the forest service do in places is to plant some stands of pine in The Boundary Waters to to compensate for removing all those seed sources 7,500 years ago as far as invasives well, Lives are a fact of life. I mean, you can't go and rip out Buckthorn from 2 million acres of land up in the Quantico. I think something like 10 percent of the plant species are from places other than Ontario and I would imagine the situation is similar in The Boundary Waters. The special gift of human beings is carrying stuff around and trading it. And as long as you have people moving across the face of the planet you're going to The new species moving around and and you can do some Restoration in that regard, but some of it frankly is
(00:41:58) hopeless Lane Kennedy. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you sort of the the question. I think a lot of people might have when they look at the images that you've taken for this book because as you said earlier in the hour, they they are reflective of iconic moments in the Northwoods A wilderness trip. A group looking at a map somehow when you take those images, they don't look like vacation photos. And I want to know
(00:42:30) how
(00:42:32) you know what I mean.
(00:42:35) How is it that you're approaching the subject? I mean this is this is about more than nature photography because you wanted to interact with humans obviously in many of the images in your book. So so is it composition is it what is it that lets you step back and take images of those. Very same I mean I looked at those photos and I said to myself. Oh, yeah. I've got a photo from 1995. We were all looking around at a map. And there was a lake in the background somehow. It's just not the same. So where do you start when you have a palate as huge as the Horizon of The Boundary Waters to think about what you're going to compose?
(00:43:20) Well, it's a good question. And I think a lot of it goes back to the style of books that both Greg's and my I have booked a hard water world which the which is a book on the culture of ice fishing not a how-to book the culture of ice fishing and that also cake is broken down into various chapters. And we've done the same thing here with the Boundary Waters. So for me, I'm actually going out in covering 10 different stories Portage. We bring it mention. We looked at the iconic aspects of The Boundary Waters and so for me visually try to make this marriage with Greg's text its to show each one of these places as they are and I think Greg and I think of like on those terms and that I guess I look at a book on The Boundary Waters and I don't consider this book to be a coffee table book. I consider this to be a real book on the Body Waters political Wilderness and I come from that perspective. And that is Greg mentioned earlier people. This is the whole story is people using this Wilderness and I've always viewed that if a book is just nothing but pretty pictures of the lake pretty pictures of sunrise sunset by the fifth of six pages starts to become pretty repetitive and for me pretty boring. It's that interaction. Earnest with people and experiences that people get from Wilderness that intrigues me and so including people in those photographs, I think really helps tell the story and you know, there's just certain moments that we all experience but we tend to walk past those out. There's an image for example of a guy with fairy money legs on a Portage. Yeah, that's what it was things when you're on a trip, you know, he's like how much mud we've got and you can't wait to get to the lake to rinse it off but yet, you know oftentimes those terrible portage's are your most memorable experience Has in this Wilderness and nothing about the Boundary Waters is it's such an accessible Wilderness for so many ages and so many different types of experienced people to go to The Boundary Waters and and a conversation just a few days ago. Somebody had told me that a lot of folks view The Boundary Waters after initial experience like with a camp or a bunch of Powell's that it's little more elevated than a state park experience. And I think our first caller was talking about he's worried about campsite. Being overrun and so on so forth and and certainly that exists in any Wilderness you go in those areas that are easily accessible that they are used more than other places. But you know the deeper you go into the Wilderness the more wild it is the more rugged is and also the more challenging could be so I just try to bring that across to the photographs that we have a nice mix of what the Wilderness experience is in a very real
(00:45:50) light and so I also want you to share with us because you do at the very end of the book. I share this story. So I'm not telling Tales out of
(00:45:59) school.
(00:46:01) I want you to tell the story about the one that got away. The photo that got away from
(00:46:08) you. Yeah. That was one of my very first experiences in The Boundary Waters and I think again, this is kind of the beauty of wilderness that you can't plan for it. And even though the Boundary Waters is inaccessible Wilderness. It's still Wilderness, you know tragedy can still happen and in the wilderness, of course for me, the tragedy was missing a photograph. We were actually going from one leg to another we were going from Siegel Lake one of my favorite Lakes up to Alpine Lake and one of those fabulous summer thunderstorms just They could hear a rumbling and we were actually rather than doing the Portage because it was our first order to carrying your heaviest amount of here for two week trip. We decided to pull our canoes through the connecting stream that join those two lakes and as we did the storm came right upon us and lightning struck and lightning struck a tree right across the river from us and just scared the devil. I was in fact neither one of us can remember how we ended up on shore watching everything develop after that, but then it rained it poured our canoe filled with water. All my camera gear of course was improperly packed at that point. I'm being a rookie at going up there at the figured. You know, they glad garbage bags would be sufficient for any weather that we might have and of course, you know, when I picked up the bag of water drained out of it and went yeah, my here is going to be toast. Well anyway, so the sun breaks like those summer thunderstorms passing storms do and a rainbow ensues and it was just gorgeous and what do you know? What right at that rainbow was that half of that rainbow enter the lake Loom paddled, right? Really and you know, you're sitting there you're just absolutely stunning. Of course. I picked my camera up and I see this kind of red colored water coming out of because the Kodachrome was just melting out of my camera. So it was one of those images that wasn't meant to be but you know, it was definitely a moment that was meant to be taken in and I never forget that day. I never forget that moment and I don't really regret not having captured that and I'm certainly thankful that I had a chance to witness it and that was that's Wilderness, you know, that's world.
(00:48:06) Enos it's mid-morning on Minnesota Public Radio news. I'm Kate Smith. We're talking this morning with photographer Lane Kennedy and writer Greg brining about their new Cooperative effort. It's a new book out from the Minnesota Historical Society. Press called paddle North canoeing The Boundary Waters Quantico Wilderness. We'd love to hear your thoughts about the Wilderness your trips your adventures your mishaps. Perhaps give us a call one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight. That's 800 two for two. Wait to wait in the Twin Cities, six, five. One two, two seven six thousand or you can go online NPR news.org and click on send us a question Greg brining when we talked a little earlier about the idea that the forest changes that the Wilderness changes that it adapts that it adapted to logging that it's adapting now to climate change. I suspect that. There are people in some parts of Minnesota who are listening to our conversation this morning and the word mining. Is on their mind because there are a couple of active new mining proposals for just maybe 10 miles south of The Boundary Waters up in the Babbitt area. I wonder how that plays into your sense of whether that's something the Wilderness accepts and changes with and and handles. How does that play in for you?
(00:49:35) Well,
(00:49:36) Knowing it's such a polarizing topic. I throw it your way.
(00:49:40) Yeah. Well, I would certainly not like to see mining in The Boundary Waters and I don't think we're talking about an imminent plan for that any more than I would want to see mining in Yellowstone National Park or for that matter mining in my living room. I you know that certain places for certain uses. We've set these areas aside including the new wonders Quantico for for a certain kind of enjoyment of Nature and come hell or high water. We're going to protect them. But just because we draw the
(00:50:18) line doesn't mean that what happens 20 miles. The other side of the line doesn't have an
(00:50:23) impact true and on the other hand when does concern for that turn into a knot in my backyard kind of argument. I mean the fact is we aren't industrial society. We have built our standard of living on. Certain kind of Natural Resources use and if not in an area near like near Babbitt where there has been iron mining then where where is better than that a third world country. So we don't have to confront it. We don't have to see it. We don't have to worry about it. It can go on in an area that has regulations that are much worse than ours. Not a good solution in my mind. So at some point Don't people have to say okay. We're going to regulate this. We're going to be really strict with it. But given the nature of who we are we're going to have to allow it somewhere now is the polymet proposal south of The Boundary Waters terrific. Well, it sounds like it can be certainly strengthened and regulations can be strengthened. But just because it's 20 miles from The Boundary Waters does not necessarily mean we should say absolutely not it does suggest we should say we've got to be really really strict and careful with this
(00:51:45) Rob is calling us this morning from Hutchinson High Rob welcome to mid-morning
(00:51:49) hi thanks for having me on thanks for the program
(00:51:54) what's your comment today
(00:51:56) well I just wanted to point out he talked about the different level of challenges based on how far you might go in and what the campsites look like but depending upon when you go in will change your experience a lot to you know we've literally amped up there and Quincy huts and we've also you know scouted for moose hunt in August you know on Lake you know from one through Alice and you know it's just wall-to-wall people all the way Back to Alice and then you show up the second week of October the leaves are changing, you know, and it's absolutely beautiful and you never see a soul. So it's a different experience just based on, you know, avoiding that summer rush I guess
(00:52:38) and do you avoid it? Do you avoid the Summer Rush
(00:52:41) Rob often times? Yeah, you know, we'll go up in the fall and you know, the fishings a little more hit or miss but the scenery is obviously spectacular and we and we kind of like to go and the people aren't their
(00:52:57) Lane Kennedy. Do you prefer your Wilderness less populated. Do you also sometimes avoid the the Summer Rush?
(00:53:06) Absolutely, in fact, you know that was one of the big conversations that were brought out about this book is in including a winter chapter in a book that is Boundary Waters canoe area because the building Waters does freeze, but there's a tremendous amount of activity that takes place in the winter months. No dogsledding cross country. In snowshoeing winter camping all of these things. And to be honest with you. That's my favorite time of the year just for the reasons that Rob it just brought up that there's just less people up there and it seems to be more Wilderness the only the only tracks you see or either snowshoes or wolf tracks and animal tracks and that's a real treat to be able to see the Wilderness in that white and he's right about the summer months in The Boundary Waters. Of course, that's one of the reasons why we have a few images in there and great talks about the crowds and The Boundary Waters is you know, what am I great? Is p used in life is traffic, you know, I don't I plan my assignments around not driving around traffic in Minneapolis. And the same is true with the Boundary Waters. I try not to do that because there's nothing worse than a two o'clock in the afternoon in these busier entry points. Oh my gosh, we better find a campsite a we're not going to find a campsite and you know, should you have that feeling in the wilderness? It's a real strange sensation
(00:54:18) Greg burning you and your wife Susan travel a lot and you write about that York. Frances together I'm wondering as a writer as an experiencer of nature does who you're traveling with really affect how you experience the Wilderness. Do you have different kinds of experiences based on?
(00:54:41) Oh absolutely. You're traveling companions can change the whole tenor of a trip. In fact a great example is a trip. We took Susan and I took in conjunction with this book her daughter and our son-in-law from Brooklyn called us up one day and said we want to go to The Boundary Waters and our response was really had they been why do you want to do that? No that never been Eddie and Mark wanted to go to The Boundary Waters. So we planned this trip up to four Town Lake. It was three short portage's in and then it was a fairly big lake with islands and bays and I figured okay we can we can Portage in And you know pedal just a little ways set up camp stay for two or three days and then go out. It'll be an easy trip. They'll kind of get a taste of portaging and four towns of pretty like and and that'll be it. It'll be easy. Well, we got up there and they took to the portaging right away. I mean a diol 100 pounds of her head the head the food pack on and Mark had a pack in the canoe and pretty soon they start getting during the the hang of paddling and they wanted to go on and they wanted to do a loop. So the next day we pulled up stakes and we went over to horse Lake and then down the horse River over to the Basswood. Well pretty soon. We were off the map. I didn't bring a map for all that and we're just kind of going by Reckoning thinking well, we'll get to Basswood like pretty soon and then we should be able to come back down here to the south west, but it was a perfect example of how your When companions can change the tenor of the trip and in this case just because of their Spirit of Adventure and wanting to explore and and not whining just just that can-do spirit and it it it made it was a delightful trip was one of the most enjoyable trips I've ever had up
(00:56:42) there. Same question. Do you like do you see through your lens differently based on the folks in your in your campsite folks you're traveling.
(00:56:52) Yeah, I think so. So that's a good question. I think for example with the book coverage you tend to be thinking specifically about trying to tell a story about portaging. So you are definitely seeing things that are wrapped around the concept of the Portage and that could be any number of things the exposed roots that are slippery when it's wet the difficult climb like the Yum Yum Portage in Quantico, which is Infamous for its difficulty going almost straight up and down over rock and Finding ways to cover that. So your mind becomes very focused on a particular particular Topic in a particular time. And you know, the same is true at night with a campfire or same is true if you're fishing and so on so forth. And so yeah, I think you're right. You did become more specific in your mind set on what it is. You want to cover when you're dealing with particular
(00:57:41) chapter. So first it was ice fishing now, it's paddle North the thrill of it. Is there going to be a third Greg brining
(00:57:50) no plans, really really?
(00:57:55) Don't bring the North Pole.
(00:57:57) Oh,
(00:58:00) he doesn't like the cold. So
(00:58:03) let's talk about tarpon fishing down in
(00:58:05) Belize. Maybe I could do that. I could do that.
(00:58:08) Well, you guys can come back next time. You've got a great new Duo out house that fabulous Lane Kennedy. It's been great to talk to you this morning. Thanks for joining us Lane. Kennedy is minnesota-based photographer. He joined us this morning from out in Virginia where he's visiting family for the holidays. he and Greg brining st. Paul writer who's been in the studio this hour thank you sir thank you Kate they are the duo behind a new Minnesota Historical Society press issue it's called paddle North it combines Greg's writing Lanes Photography in a wonderful book and we have a slideshow of some of lanes images if you go to MPR news.org you will find some beautiful photos from lane from the book it's pedal North canoeing The Boundary Waters Quantico wilderness
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